Looking for "Infantry tactics, compiled from Scott and Hardee for the use of Wisconsin volunteers" by Robert Chandler.

[thomas aagaard]

Hi

Iam looking for a scan of the drill book "Infantry tactics, compiled from Scott and Hardee for the use of Wisconsin volunteers"
by Robert Chandler."
(I have looked at Silas Tackitt's site and tried google)

So do anyone happen to have a scan?

And I have some questions about it's use.

I know that the Wisconsin regiments in the Iron Brigade in AoP used it. And I found a short debate about it here:

http://www.cwreenactors.com/forum/showthread.php?15409-Iron-Brigade-questions/page3&p=129414&highlight=Chandler

But what about the rest of the Wisconsin regiments? especially the 15th?
Did they use this manual? (I believe they all trained at the same place, camp Randell?)
If so, did they then change to Casey?

I looked in the book "Oberst Heg og hans drenge" that is about the 15th Wis and it mention "Eksersis/ekserserte/Ekserseringen/eksersere" (drill/Drilled/Drilling/to Drill) but as the fact that they do it. But not what book they use.
Hardee is mentioned a number of times, but that is because he is a enemy corp commander.

Any info would be appreciated or just suggestions on where to look

[Silas]

Re: Looking for "Infantry tactics, compiled from Scott and Hardee for the use of Wisconsin volunteers" by Robert Chandler.

Much to my chagrin, there isn't a scanned copy of Chandler online. There aren't many available for viewing. One is at the Wisconsin Historical Society in Madison. Another is at the Huntington Library in Los Angeles County. I have a bad photocopy which contains some of the drill, but not all. For example, my copy of Chandler contains a description of left oblique firing and specifically instructs that firing is through the left interval, not the right.

[thomas aagaard]

Re: Looking for "Infantry tactics, compiled from Scott and Hardee for the use of Wisconsin volunteers" by Robert Chandler.

Ok, thank. In that case I will go true with getting Wisconsin Historical Society to make one.
(Iam already in contact with them about it and it sounds like it is possible)

The few things I do know about it comes from your article about "left oblique" :-)

[thomas aagaard]

Re: Looking for "Infantry tactics, compiled from Scott and Hardee for the use of Wisconsin volunteers" by Robert Chandler.

Update:

I Contact UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN-MADISON LIBRARIES about getting a scan of their book.

And I got a reply that they were willing to scan it. But it would cost some 50USD.

Since Iam a "poor" university student I went to our university library and asked them to get it for me. (since that is free)

The first reply was that the Wisconsin library was not willing to scan it...
The problem was that they have a max 50 pages rule, and it got 77 numbered pages. But I pointed out that the size is so small that they can scan two pages at a time and forwarded my mails.

But my university library is not allowed to give me the PDF scan... so they send me a printed copy...
Rather foolish when the owner or the book was willing to email me PDF.

anyway. I now have a printed version. Two pages in the book only takes up half a a4 page, but I guess that is the original size.

I will scan it later this week,


But I took two pictures - the front page and the "left oblique firing" since this topic was mentioned and that is why I know about this book.

[Silas]

Re: Looking for "Infantry tactics, compiled from Scott and Hardee for the use of Wisconsin volunteers" by Robert Chandler.

Yours looks much better than the copy of a copy of a copy I possess. Plus, mine stops at page 35, the "through the left interval" page. At least I know the origin of my copy. Same source as yours.

[thomas aagaard]

Re: Looking for "Infantry tactics, compiled from Scott and Hardee for the use of Wisconsin volunteers" by Robert Chandler.

I will still scan it properly and make it a pdf but I ended up taking pictures of each page with my camera.

They can be found here.

https://www.dropbox.com/lightbox/home/acw-aalborg/drill/chandler

And as attachements to this post.
I noticed that page 35-36 is in the wrong place when I took the pictures.

The best way to view it is to copy all the pictures to you disk and then view them it full size. Makes it much easier to read the text

[thomas aagaard]

Re: Looking for "Infantry tactics, compiled from Scott and Hardee for the use of Wisconsin volunteers" by Robert Chandler.

So I scanned it. And forgot about the wrong placement of the paper page that have page 36-37. so it 34-35, 38-39, 36-37, 40-41.

I will get this fixed at some point, but until then here is a temp version.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mox3b3yiv3sfk8y/1861%20-%20Chandler%20-%20For%20Wisconsin%20vounteers.pdf?dl=0

[Silas]

Re: Looking for "Infantry tactics, compiled from Scott and Hardee for the use of Wisconsin volunteers" by Robert Chandler.

There's something in here which really has my attention as it addresses one of my marching peaves : entire battalions marching by the flank across open fields.

Too many reenactors don't review the school of the battalion. I understand enlisted men being wary about the higher levels of drill. However, the line and field grade officers really should understand the concepts. It's really not that difficult because is only about flanks, files and lines. One of those things in the manual which even some of the best drilled commanders don't utilize is the concept that the length of a battalion, marching by a flank, should never be longer than the front of the battalion when faced to the front.

Here's how to visualize this. Imagine a battalion in line of battle and in two ranks. Picture the right and left extremes of the battalion. Now, face the battalion to the right (left). The length of the battalion facing to a flank - meaning the foremost and rearmost soldiers - should be within the same footprint - meaning the former right and left extreme - of the former front.

The length will remain within the same footprint until the commander orders the battalion to march forward by that flank. In theory, there is plenty of room between the files because there should be about forty-eight inches between files with a regulation step of only twenty-eight inches. It just doesn't work that way in practice. The files at the front of the battalion will step off, but those behind them, not so much. Some not at all. This is how the line lengthens beyond the footprint of the battalion when it was faced to the front. It's like opening the bellows of an accordian. When a halt occurs, it takes a while for the rear of the battalion to make up that distance caused by those up front hesitating before marching by the flank. It's even worse when battalions march in two(!) ranks.

Some stretch is going to happen when marching down a narrow lane or through some defile like a gate. No big deal. There are ways to close the opened bellows once the lane or defile has been passed. There's actually instruction in the tactics for dealing with defiles where only two or one soldier at a time can get through the defile, but I digress.

When reenacting battalions march across an open fields, they generally march by the flank, despite there being no defile which dictates the width of the front. Reenacting battalions should march in column of companies across those wide open fields. Reasons that they march by the flank instead of by column include having passed through or the need to pass through some gate. Also, the men don't realize there is a simple method of going from column of companies into a battalion marching by the flank. They know how to form into companies from a battalion flank - by company into line - but not the other way around.

A method is contained in Hardee's School of the Company, but it's not as easy to visualize as what is contained in page 61 of Chandler. He has a company, in column of platoons at full distance marching to the front, facing by the right (left) flank and then performing a by file left (right). Each platoon does this at the same time as the other. In theory, by the time the last file in the front platoon has wheeled left (right), the first file of the second platoon - which has already wheeled and marched forward - should be right there and ready to follow.

This is kewl stuff which is almost never used by reenactors.

It's not going to work that easily in practice. The second platoon may have some distance to overtake because it moved too slowly. More likely, the second platoon will have to briefly mark time while the last file of the first platoon finishes its wheel. No big deal. In a battalion context, you're generally going to see a column of companies, not a column of platoons.

The text on page 61 of Chandler isn't really in Hardee. There, it's an individual company marching forward which faces right (left) and performs a by file left (right). (See para. 314 of the School of the Soldier in Hardee's Revised just down a tad from where this link goes : http://draytons.tripod.com/hardeesocosk.htm#co306 ) Para. 314 isn't as visual as a pair of platoons performing the manoeuver. Para. 325 does discuss this, but the concept isn't as clear as contained in Chandler.

When a battalion marching across an open field is in column of companies, it takes less time to form into the desired battle formation. That small amount of time gained may be just the difference which makes or breaks a battle. Think about it and give it a try. It's not all that different from taking a battle line and ordering a by the right of companies to the front (rear) to pass through a mess like thick forest or an artillery battery. Once the mess is passed, the battle line is reformed by each company going into line.

[thomas aagaard]

Re: Looking for "Infantry tactics, compiled from Scott and Hardee for the use of Wisconsin volunteers" by Robert Chandler.

Things I noticed when I looked it over:

Shoulder arms is done in the left hand but "Load" have the musket "butt shall rest upon the ground between the feet."

The first mention of the bayonet is the instruction of "charge bayonet" on page 17. Then "Unfix bayonet" on page 26 and fix bayonets come on page 28.
Clearly the general rule was to have the bayonet fixed all the time.
For comparison Casey have fix bayonets first.

It only have direct fire "fire by squad" and Oblique fire.
No fire by rank, fire by file. Loading kneeling or laying down.
But since it only have 75 pages for: Introduction with the structure of a regiment and company,(3-8) school of the soldier(8-49) and school of the company(49-77)... I guess something had to go.

There is no doubling when marching by the flank and the text suddenly mention a rear, center and front rank. The rest of the time it is clearly using two ranks, so I guess this is simply a mistake that the text about the center rank is not removed/changed.


Your point Silas about using "Marching by the flank" on the battlefield

Just to draw on a non US drill book.
In 1863 the danish army got a new drill book. In the part that = "school of the soldier" there is an order for "rodemarche" (file march).
But it clearly specify that is should only be used for short distance and that it is very important that each "file" keep the correct distance to the file in front, so the change to line can be made instantly." For doubling there is a specific order for this to be used for road marching.

The chapter that = "school of the company" similar clearly specify that the "rodemarch" should only be used for short distances or when doing "Reisemarche" (travel marching) that is, on roads. And it only takes up half a page. Where the different versions and manæuvres in column of platoons take up 15 pages.
Note that the danish army used a structure where one battalion of 800men was split into four companies of 200men, that was split into four platoons of 50men, and again they could be split in four sections... (Also, the company was in many ways the basic tactical unit and could and did operate by it self)

And in "school of the battalion" This again take up only half a page. And it is clear that it is only used for travel on roads.


The closest we get to the "marching by the flank" for a Battalion is each company marching in a column of (16) sections. (each section 5-6 files) but the four companies are marching parallel... not one after the other. And they keep the correct distance, so each company have the correct space to deploy into line. And since the sections are in line, The leading four sections can if needed open fire right away, with each section doing so when they get on the line.

This naturally do not really tell us anything about the american civil war... But my point is that at least is the danish army it was not found to be a good idea to march around the battlefield in a long column four men wide and 75+men deep.
And the Prussians used the same basic principle as the danish army.

Also I do believe that the doubling and marching by the flank was some of the things Upton changed post war to a system of "fours"?

[TKlas]

Re: Looking for "Infantry tactics, compiled from Scott and Hardee for the use of Wisconsin volunteers" by Robert Chandler.

Hi Thomas,

Very nice scan on dropbox of Chandlers and thanks for sharing. I have an old hardcopy of this that is not as clean as yours. As to your statement of the Wisconsin Regiments all training in Camp Randall is not the case. Several regiments trained in other Camps in Wisconsin but Camp Randall was a primary location.

Many of the gents in the ONV have had their hand in Chandler's for several events we have hosted over the years having early war impressions such as the 2nd Wisconsin at Bull Run in their state gray uniforms. It generally needs to be placed in context of the units whom initially learned the manual as many changed away from this manual.

Good luck in your impressions.

Cordially,

Tom

[thomas aagaard]

Re: Looking for "Infantry tactics, compiled from Scott and Hardee for the use of Wisconsin volunteers" by Robert Chandler.

As to your statement of the Wisconsin Regiments all training in Camp Randall is not the case. Several regiments trained in other Camps in Wisconsin but Camp Randall was a primary location.

Thanks for the info.

Clearly Chandler was used for the 2nd, 5th, 6th and 7th Wisconsin.
But isn't it plausible that all Wisconsin regiments that trained at Camp Randall used Chandlers, until at least when Casey's was made the official book to use?
( august 1862)
And just because Washington decide that, how long until all units in the field was told, got access to the book and found the time to learn the new system?

In the article about "left oblique firing" Silas mention that the Wisconsin regiments of the Iron brigade used the manual of arms from Chandler in 1864.
http://44tennessee.tripod.com/drill/LeftOblique.pdf - page 13

But since the temporary brigade commander complain:
"There is a want of uniformity in the practice of the several Regiments of this Brig. in the manner of executing the following movements : coming to a “Parade Rest” ; fixing and unfixing bayonets."

It sort of tell me that they have changed "shoulder arms" to the right side. Otherwise he would properly have mentioned that also?

My guess would be that they rather early on at least modified it. I have a hard time imagining that they did not double up when going on a march.
Also I think the missing "fire by file" would be a problem...

[thomas aagaard]

Re: Looking for "Infantry tactics, compiled from Scott and Hardee for the use of Wisconsin volunteers" by Robert Chandler.

Since I sometimes do change stuff in my dropbox the links posted earlier no longer work.

So I uploaded the pdf file to my website. This should solve the issue:

http://www.kvartermesteren.dk/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/1861-Chandler-For-Wisconsin-vounteers.pdf

[weed]

Re: Looking for "Infantry tactics, compiled from Scott and Hardee for the use of Wisconsin volunteers" by Robert Chandler.

Send me a PM with your address. I'll copy my copy of it for you. It all started with my research back in the 1990's any way.

John M Wedeward

- - - Updated - - -

In the fall of 1861, Major General George McClellan ordered the "standardized drill" for The Army of the Potomac. This was followed for most cases except for King's Brigade. When John Gibbon was given command of the brigade, as an Artillerist, I'm sure he was more worried about learing battallion and brigade drill for infantry, not what drill manual his individual regiments were using basically for "School of the Soldier" and "School of the Company".

[thomas aagaard]

I have been reorganizing my website. So now my reenactment stuff is now on www.musket.dk that both hold sources and I use it as a blog writing about reenactment and similar topics.

So the link for this drill books is now:

https://musket.dk/wp-content/uploads/1861-Chandler-For-Wisconsin-vounteers.pdf