Pleated Frock Coats

[dave81276]

I'm new to this site and only recently, by the encouragement of friends, moved into the progressive camp in reenacting. I've searched the site on this topic but found nothing.

I recently noticed that Jersey Skilletlicker is offering a pleated Confederate frock coat for sale. First question, how accurate is that for enlisted men? I've seen Gen. Buckner's at the Museum of the Confederacy and I know Gen. Billy Mahone wore one, but would it be period-correct for early war infantrymen or militia? I've also seen it called a fatigue coat.

Second question, where would I find a pattern for it? A friend of mine's wife is an excellent period-correct seamstress and would sew it for me. I've checked Charlie Child's and Past Patterns' websites, but they don't list it.

Please forgive me if I've asked some stupid questions... I'm new.

Sincerely,
Dave Eggleston

[James Masson]

Re: Pleated Frock Coats

You won't find a pattern for that particular jacket. At least not a commercial pattern. As for the provenance and history of the jacket itself, I know nothing about it.

Regards,

[hireddutchcutthroat]

Re: Pleated Frock Coats

I'm new to this site and only recently, by the encouragement of friends, moved into the progressive camp in reenacting. I've searched the site on this topic but found nothing.

I recently noticed that Jersey Skilletlicker is offering a pleated Confederate frock coat for sale. First question, how accurate is that for enlisted men? I've seen Gen. Buckner's at the Museum of the Confederacy and I know Gen. Billy Mahone wore one, but would it be period-correct for early war infantrymen or militia? I've also seen it called a fatigue coat.

Second question, where would I find a pattern for it? A friend of mine's wife is an excellent period-correct seamstress and would sew it for me. I've checked Charlie Child's and Past Patterns' websites, but they don't list it.

Please forgive me if I've asked some stupid questions... I'm new.

Sincerely,
Dave Eggleston

Dave

If you are looking for a CS frock, you would be best off with just a plain single breasted CS frock.

[JerseySkilletLicker]

Re: Pleated Frock Coats

I went through the same "round robin" on this coat when I intially offered it. Screams of "not PEC" and "only Mahone and Bruckner wore it". A little digging turns up a wealth of information on this style of coat.
Please go here for a bit of insight:

http://www.skilletlicker.com/pleatedfrocks.html

In the future, you can always write to me before posting a question such as this, might save you a little time.

Hoping that the above proves useful.

[tmdreb]

Re: Pleated Frock Coats

There is an image of Syndey Sherman's son, who fought in the defense of Galveston, wearing such a garment in the San Jacinto Museum of History. I do believe he was in the enlisted ranks when he served. Galveston fell in the fall of 1862, so this would qualify for early War to early mid-War.

[Iron Scout]

Re: Pleated Frock Coats

Maybe not PEC,

But a great image nonetheless! Numerous early SC companies fielded pleated frocks. This is the Richland Volunteer Rifles taken in Columbia before shipping out to Charleston c.1861. Lots of detail, hope the image comes through.

Neill Rose
PLHA
Image courtesy of the SC Confederate Relic Room & Museum

[CJSchumacher]

Re: Pleated Frock Coats

Much like Barbour TM and English tweeds today...it was a true sportsman's jacket. There are places in London where you can still purchase tweed hunting jackets with pleats in them...although not quite as many, but with the same idea and purpose...mobility. Easier yet, go into any Orvis store here in the states and look at a shooting tweed...you'll find many with two front pleats toward the shoulder and two in the rear. Again, same purpose.

As is the case with much of the finer things in life...most stay similar to or even remain the same.

This frock fits a time and purpose not unfimiliar to a genteman of stature headed off to war.

Chris

[Gallo de Cielo]

Re: Pleated Frock Coats

Yes, I'll second any that have said these were a pretty common item. In digging through six of the "Portraits of Conflict" series I came across numerous images of pleated frocks.

So yes, to respond to Robert's statement, a plain, single-breasted frock is certainly a fantastic route to go but I would argue that the pleated version is tremendously under-represented and certainly a PEC item for enlisted ranks on up.

My two cents.

Fred Baker

[SCSecesh]

Re: Pleated Frock Coats

I know we had this discussion quite a while ago, but I'm not certain if it survived the server/service meltdown, but you may be able to use the search function to find several images I posted of SC troops with this style frock - a hunting frock - that appeared to be more common than most seem to believe.

[Minieball577]

Re: Pleated Frock Coats

I know we had this discussion quite a while ago, but I'm not certain if it survived the server/service meltdown, but you may be able to use the search function to find several images I posted of SC troops with this style frock - a hunting frock - that appeared to be more common than most seem to believe.

Dave, I believe the posting you are referring to was on the old board. I do recall several images, some of which are in Ron Feild's American Civil War Confederate (Brassey's).

[Reserve]

Re: Pleated Frock Coats

Though not inordinately common these coats were popular, as you can see as a stylish garment. I have read several newspaper reports from 1861 of companies being dressed in coats that read as if they are the same pleated coats as in the photos. If you have not noticed it yet, a number of Federal officers were photographed wearing coats like this as well (I recall some Rhode Islanders and a staff officer off the top of my head), it was not just a CS trend.

Here is an amazing coat in the NC Museum of History owned by Gen. Hoke. Camp Coat, 1861

Also, to knock your socks off, Phil Katcher's handy little book the complete Civil War has an intriguing quote on page 220.
" A Texas cavalry sergeant wrote home in October 1863 for his wife to make him a coat:'The coat I want has a band around the waist and a pleated body, infant waist I believe they call it. They are all the fashion among the cavalry for even a dress uniform." Then.... "He mentioned that in December taking his coat to a local tailor to'... have the cuffs and collars trimmed with yellow flannel.' And next April wanted...' some more yellow trimming for collars and cuffs."

I think that quote has sufficiently scared everyone now! Yellow trimmed pleated frock in April 1864....

[CJSchumacher]

Re: Pleated Frock Coats

[QUOTE=Reserve]
" A Texas cavalry sergeant wrote home in October 1863 for his wife to make him a coat:'The coat I want has a band around the waist and a pleated body, infant waist I believe they call it.QUOTE]

Ethan, that is a fantastic quote. Just to note, many shooting jackets and waistcoats today still feature a "band" or belted waist. Again, I think some fashions/utility never change.

[DukeRPSC]

Re: Pleated Frock Coats

There is a picture of one of my wife's cousins, a young Meetze gentleman ( pronounced "mets" like the baseball team ) in the collection of the Lexington County Museum. I had asked the curator to find it so I could copy it, but he has been unable to locate it. ( A tornado which totally destroyed my home in 1994 also hit the county museum. Some buildings were observed to simply "explode". It's there. He just cannot find it. ) It is a large hand-colored tintype of Mr. Meetze in just such a coat and is believed to be of 1863 vintage. He stands unarmed with a forage cap of the same material as the coat.

Period engravings, paintings and lithographs show a similar coat in civilian usage as a hunting coat ( which I have also read this garment called ) and often depicted in scenes of wing-shooting. Its design allows freedom of movement and would also allow for game stowage in the body much as does the Orvis upland shooting coat I have. Birds or rabbits would certainly be easy to stow in the body of the coat since secured at the waist with the integral belt.

Since the thinking of the time was that the best training for war was outdoor sport, it is only natural that garment construction might, in some instances, reflect that. I think this garment is underrepresented and reflects a great "sent from home" item for all but the latest stages of the war.

[dave81276]

Re: Pleated Frock Coats

I would like to thank all of y'all for your help. I think this site is a great resource (if my space bar would stop sticking!), especially for us new folks just starting out in the hobby. As many people complain, I spent my first 2 years buying crap recommend by fools for "economy" purposes; now I'm trying to get my kit straight and spending more. I could've saved $600-$1000 by spending $1500 to begin with. Once again, thanks.
-Dave Eggleston

[ltmoss_us]

Re: Pleated Frock Coats

I am not sure where to ask this question so I am asking it here does anyone out there make pleated frock coats or anyone that makes them or is willing to make one contact me I am interested in having one made and would like more details such as what they can be made of what styles are out there and so on
thank you for your help
Josh Kirleis
TransMississippi Brigade