Officer's Saber Belt - Folded Leather/Was it not real?

[mtvernon]

Hello Friends,

I've been poking around in all the wrong places and cannot seem to find an approved-ish vendor providing folded leather officer's saber belts. I'm not challenging the idea that they were only ever folded, but I'm just trying to see why they aren't produced (seemingly) as a standard item when almost all artifacts I've seen are constructed in this fashion. More to the point, is anyone making these at this time, even if it's a custom order? I've been corresponding with Nick Duvall, who said he doesn't make them anymore (not sure why).

Second, on that note, his officer's saber belt (photo attached) is very nicely done, but doesn't seem to be based on an original. According to Nick, the components are all correct, but that exact assemblage of parts apparently doesn't have an historical counterpart. That complicates it a bit, but I'm not sure how much. Sure, one could always call the "private purchase" card, after all, and it is a rather striking piece, but I'm just not sure how to defend it and can't find it's doppelganger after a fairly thorough search. Thoughts?



Thank you very much.

[Silas]

Re: Officer's Saber Belt - Folded Leather/Was it not real?

Approved vendor, Mike Brase of MB Young and Co., has made them. Not sure if he's making them at this time. When he made my current belt, folded leather was an option he offered. I passed. When you click on his website, the belt you see in the masthead is the one I bought.

[Ambrose Bierce]

Re: Officer's Saber Belt - Folded Leather/Was it not real?

You might also try Brian "Speedy" Merrick or Tim Welch (who goes by L.D. Hanging, an approved AC vendor) to see if they will/do take on custom work for this kind of belt. As to the "why" these are not part of regular offerings, I don't know, exactly, save that they do take a lot of work for the details involved. I am not a leather artificer, however, so perhaps someone like Shaun Pekar can weigh in on the subject since he indeed is one.

For your second quandary, I can say that the "private" or "commercial" purchase does give you some leeway, but isn't a carte blanche excuse for unsupported documentation. While it is always best to have copies made of an extant item or photo, having an item constructed based upon several details compiled into one product may meet the requirement if not being pure to any one example. This debate can go in many different directions, and having done a significant amount of business with Nick Duvall I am not calling out his provenance or expertise, but illustrating the point you make about supportable documentation. I trust that make sense.

To illustrate the point of custom belts being used in the war (a copy of which, incidentally, Nick made for me) I offer the photo of Lt. Col. James F. O' Brien, 48th Massachusetts Infantry, on page 84 of Faces of the Civil War, by Ronald S. Coddington, The Johns Hopkins University Press, 2004. His belt shows a similar leather sword guard on his belt. I can't scan the photo, otherwise I would post it.

So, these were part and parcel to at least one documented belt, even if the original hasn't been examined.

To meet your requirement I think finding the belt you want to have made and then a craftsman to make it based upon as much research as you can get will yield the suitable copy you seek. I hope this helps.

[Jeremy Bevard]

Re: Officer's Saber Belt - Folded Leather/Was it not real?

Duvall used to make the folded leather belt as I have a friend who has one he made. I know a ton of work went into it and I think there were some leather issues that required to to be remade or repaired. Its been a few years so memory is fuzzy. It was not anything Duvall did but I recall more of how thin the leather was to make it right. I know my friend was very happy with his experience and the belt serves him well still today.

The belt you have a picture of is my belt or at least the version he created for me. Many years ago I called Duvall to order an officer's belt, my first one. At that time his website was limited in selection and no officer belts were listed. After talking I gave him the creative license to create me a belt, within the budget agreed on, using his knowledge of what it should be. So, it is not based on a specific original but elements of. Basically, what Ivan says in his second paragraph. Sometime after that the belt was on his site and now others own them. For a short time it was unique. But mine is so worn now that the red trim is pretty well worn away and other showings of lots of use. I remember that there are many belts like it but this one is mine.

If you want a folded sewn leather Dixie Leatherworks makes one that is copied off of one from the Schuler Hartley and Graham catalog. That might be in the realm of what you are looking for.

[coastaltrash]

Re: Officer's Saber Belt - Folded Leather/Was it not real?

Officer's belts would have been private purchased anyway. I've seen various stitching styles (figure 8s etc) in originals. I owned one Speedy made and sadly let that go when I pawned off the Fed officers impression.

[arkangel33]

Re: Officer's Saber Belt - Folded Leather/Was it not real?

Joe,
replied to your PM on Facebook

[mtvernon]

Re: Officer's Saber Belt - Folded Leather/Was it not real?

A sincere thanks to you all. I appreciate the responses.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Officer's Saber Belt - Folded Leather/Was it not real?

Hallo!

I am coming away with the impression that there are two questions here?:

1. Folded leather sword belts
2. The presence of, or nature of, the "uniform protector" panel.

Folded leather is PC, a popular way to use thinner more 'exotic' leathers and show them off more with more elaborate stitching patterns such as "figure eights."

IMHO, the larger issue or question seems to be the 'panel' or protector type pieces (?)

Curt

[mtvernon]

Re: Officer's Saber Belt - Folded Leather/Was it not real?

Hallo!

I am coming away with the impression that there are two questions here?:

1. Folded leather sword belts
2. The presence of, or nature of, the "uniform protector" panel.

Folded leather is PC, a popular way to use thinner more 'exotic' leathers and show them off more with more elaborate stitching patterns such as "figure eights."

IMHO, the larger issue or question seems to be the 'panel' or protector type pieces (?)

Curt

1. Yes, that's correct. The question itself was borne out of the perception that there aren't perhaps any folded leather belts being represented in reproduction these days, while most of the officer's saber belts I see coming up in auctions or in collections seem to be of this variety.

2. As to the "protector panel", you can find a number of them that have panels like this, although I haven't yet seen one that matches the one sold by Mr. Duvall. This is no comment on his authenticity level, just that in what I have been able to discover I don't see it.

Also, please forgive my ignorance, but what does PC mean?

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Officer's Saber Belt - Folded Leather/Was it not real?

Hallo!

"PC" (not the other 'Politically Correct') was/is a term sometimes used by we dinosaurs and fossils... meaning "Period Correct."

:) :)

Curt

[mtvernon]

Re: Officer's Saber Belt - Folded Leather/Was it not real?

I'm glad to hear it's the latter and not the former! :D

[LtCol0802]

Re: Officer's Saber Belt - Folded Leather/Was it not real?

Robert Serio made me one years ago and it is first rate. CS Officer sword belt. He does so well with everything he makes.

S/F
LtCol John Owens USMC (ret)