P-53 Enfield question

[fallstoomuch]

Has anyone seen or heard of a P-53 that has barrel band springs? I held one yesterday...the parts all looked correct-even the shape of the stock was good-did not look like a Springfield stock-I had never heard of one having those springs...I might try to go back and get pictures...it is for sale but it's in rough condition.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: P-53 Enfield question

Hallo!

Yes. The P1853 2nd Model, (and the P1853 2nd Model made by Robbins & Lawrence) had barrel band springs.

2nd Models typically carry 1855 through 1858 dates, with very few made in 1858. R & L's were also delivered between 1855 and 1858.

An R & L:



Curt

[Enfield]

Re: P-53 Enfield question

If you are considering buying it, be aware that several of these guns have come from sources (and continue to come from these sources) that you may not want to consider ... especially since you said that the gun is rough. Over the past 13 years or so, some of this model have come out of Afghanistan. These range from genuine British-made Enfields, to Afghan-repaired guns (with Afghan parts), to pure Afghan-made guns. The quality of most of these is rather poor. The other source was from storage in an arsenal in Nepal - a lot of these guns have been on the market recently (IMA, Atlanta Cutlery, Gunbroker, etc.). The examples that I have seen were not made in England, and most of them are pretty rough. Naturally, none of these guns will have ANY WBTS association, if that's what you are interested in.

Geoff Walden

[fallstoomuch]

Re: P-53 Enfield question

I looked for other marking but couldn't find any-didn't look too long or hard-had the family waiting in the car-i will try to look next time I'm in there-and get pics. Thank you for all the info!

[Craig L Barry]

Re: P-53 Enfield question

Proceed with caution as Geoff speaks the truth, a while back several thousand were discovered stored in Nepal, apparently made there and Atlanta Cutlery was selling them for a couple hundred bucks. They had odd sanskrit markings on the lock plate and barrel. Those were quite rough, and those too rough to sell outright were parted out (sold for parts). You still see the parts come up on ebay from time to time. And certainly no Civil War heritage could be claimed for any of those Nepalese made P53s. I know of one person who bought one and had Todd Watts "defarb" it into resembling something made in England. He assured Watts it's future was as a wallhanger, but I cautioned him against doing the job at all. I don't know the final outcome.

There were type II P53s with bandsprings that can be identified in period images, Geoff mentions them in one of his excellent monographs on the Enfield, I forget which exactly. However, it terms of commonality, the third type was by far the most widely used. Those type II P53s made on the Robbins & Lawrence contract are easily identified by WINDSOR on the lock plate and being machine made, they have the round earred lock plate washers.

[calconfederate]

Re: P-53 Enfield question

There was also the Whitney Enfield made by Eli Whitney in New Haven , Connecticut.
Mississippi and Georgia state militias bought about 2,000 before the war.

https://www.collegehillarsenal.com/shop/product.php?productid=1161

[Craig L Barry]

Re: P-53 Enfield question

Right, but one would not categorize the Whitney amalgamation as any sort of "P-53" (pattern) Enfield.

[calconfederate]

Re: P-53 Enfield question

Right, but one would not categorize the Whitney amalgamation as any sort of "P-53" (pattern) Enfield.

I guess that's why you're an author and I'm just a tourist.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: P-53 Enfield question

Hallo!

Whitney turned out a believed few hundred at best of his "Enfield" RM and they are a weird hybrid. I have seen one (I may be misremembering it, but was in the Rosensteel Collection at the old NPS in Gettysburg said to have been found at Culp's Hill).
One was found at Spotsylvania Court House.

Supposedly they were made using "Enfield Machinery made for England during the Crimean War but never sent, plus odds-and-ends parts. So there is a M1855 "style" bolster, a flat flush to stock lockplate not like any U.S. arm or Enfield, M1855ish "style" rear sight as found on Whitney's Connecticut contract RM's, and a pewter nose cap.

Curt

[Clsinclair]

Re: P-53 Enfield question

I had a P-53 Enfield dated 1856 that was issued for the English army. It had the spring bands. All the correct stamps and it was in excellent condition. I used it for about 10 years and recently sold it to a collector.

Claude Sinclair