More interesting Confed images (Columbus Depot?)

[markj]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=13960&item=2236295569&rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=13960&item=2236298247&rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=13960&item=2236299009&rd=1

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[Milliron]

Re: More interesting Confed images (Columbus Depot?)

If that's a Columbus Depot jacket, then it's one no one's seen before. Seven (plus?) button front, no external pocket. There's only one seven button CD, and it has an external pocket. If those truly are KY state seal buttons, then this jacket would be a real find.

I wouldn't even be surprised if that's a frock he has on. Could the coloring have been added inappropriately?

Interesting pic. Would be worth buying just to see it up close.

[hireddutchcutthroat]

Re: More interesting Confed images (Columbus Depot?)

I dont think it is a "Columbus depot". But it is a great pict! Thanks Mark.

[Glenn Milner]

Re: More interesting Confed images (Columbus Depot?)

Mark,
Firstly, I don't know how the description of cuffs can be made. They don't appear to be included in the image judging from the scale.
I have seen an image of a jacket very similar to this documented to the 25th Alabama (1862ish). The 25th Ala. jacket image did not show applied, dark cuffs (they were clearly visible) but did show dark epaulettes. Look carefully at the (high IMO) rise and style of the collar. The rise of the collar continues well around toward the back of the neck.
I don't think this is a "Columbus Depot". My bet would be commutation period. My free analysis guaranteed to be worth what you paid for it. :D
Glenn Milner

[DougCooper]

Frock?

Based on where the 7 buttons stop, leads me to believe this is likely an 8 or 9 button frock or jacket. If KY buttons, you may be looking at an Orphan Brigade soldier in a frock similar to the one original that exists worn by Pvt Hall of the 4th KY, Orphan Brigade http://www.rootsweb.com/~orphanhm/uniforms.htm
(this is rank speculation of course). What a fantastic likeness! Bid seems a little low for what we are looking at.

[CJDaley]

Re: Frock?

Is it just me or do the buttons look like they are spaced in groups of three with spaced between the 3 and 4 button and 6 and 7 button?

[markj]

Re: More interesting Confed images (Columbus Depot?)

Greetings,

Re: everyone's comments: "Beats the hell out of me." Given that most photography of Confederate enlisted men predates 1863, I would presume that it is, indeed, a variation on a commutation jacket. And a damn nice one, at that--might have even been private purchase. We know that Federal troops did occasionally hot-rod their sack coats by adding extra buttons, &c.

I haven't really kept up too much on the issue of where "Columbus Depot" jackets were actually made. I get the impression there is still a fair degree of "reasonable doubt." Given that thousands of these jackets were presumably assembled by various contractors, and only a handful have survived, we can only speculate about the different variations that were produced and issued.

It might be interesting to see if the seller can provide a photo of the complete, uncased photograph. This might solve some of the mystery regarding whether or not it's a dress coat or a jacket--it might also resolve the question about the button spacing (I personally think Chris Daley is correct in his appraisal).

Yours, &c., &c.,

Mark Jaeger

[Enfield]

Re: More interesting Confed images (Columbus Depot?)

Since folks have already talked about the number of buttons, and cut of the collar not looking like a "CD" jacket, I'd just like to point out that those buttons look like the "low dome" style, like the modern KY state seal buttons (that the State Police still wear - not to imply any equivalence, just describing the shape). They don't look like the period high-dome KY state seal buttons to me. Admittedly, hard to tell without the original to magnify.

Geoff Walden

[tmdreb]

Re: More interesting Confed images (Columbus Depot?)

Gentlemen,

There seems to be a trend going that wants to place the "Columbus Depot" label on darn near every image or account of jackets with solid blue appearing cuff and/or collar trim. A gray jacket with blue cuff and collar trim could be a product of darn near anything, and may have nothing else in common with other CD type jackets. In addition to the countless women at home sewing uniforms, there were also jackets produced by depots in Arkansas and Texas that fit the basic description of a "Columbus" type jacket.

I'm not trying to attack anyone in this thread, but I just would like to advise caution in tossing out the CD label in cases like this. For the picture in question, the only feature I can see in common with CD type jackets is the solid collar trim. Unfortunately, we cannot see the cuffs, or even the length of the garment. It could very easily be a frock. Also, all speculation aside, we cannot know the color of the trim.

I would also agree with previous posters by saying that regardless of what the guy is wearing, it is a great picture! Chris, I also see what you're saying about the button groupings. It sure does look like they're grouped in 3's.

[markj]

Re: More interesting Confed images (Columbus Depot?)

Greetings,

For what it's worth, and without giving away too much (I'm putting together an article for the "Watchdog"), while at the National Archives I found the following in a circa June 1863 document entitled, "Articles needed in the Manufacturing Department [Trans-Mississippi] Clothing Bureau....":

100 yds Blue cloth for Coat Cuffs
100 " Buff " " " "
100 " Red " " " "

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[tmdreb]

Re: More interesting Confed images (Columbus Depot?)

Mark,

I've seen similar quotes before, especially quite a few in Captain Wharton's (of the Houston Depot) CSR. I've also seen requests for trimmings in branch of service colors from various officers, and others who were in the blockade running or skirting business that was going on at Matamoros. The conclusion I've reached from this information, surviving original articles of clothing, and period illustrations is that branch of service trim was quite common in the Trans-Miss, or was at least a part of uniform manufacture that was emphasized in its importance. That is a great source you've found. I'm not sure what the subject of your article is (I completely understand that you don't want to disclose that), but if you somehow needed more sources like that, feel free to ask me.

I really hope I didn't come off like I was trying to lecture you in my last post. That certainly was not my intention. I know that you know what you're talking about, but the type of jacket we refer to as the Columbus Depot has enough uncertainty in its use and origins without the wild speculations of some. Off the top of my head, there is one dismounted cav unit whose website proclaims, after what could appear to the inexperienced as good research, that the most common jacket seen in the Trans-Miss would have been the black-trimmed Columbus Depot. After such blatant fallacies, I tend to get a bit hypersensitive.

[Clark Badgett]

Re: More interesting Confed images (Columbus Depot?)

That image looks nothing like the Hall frock at Murphreesboro. I would concur with several others that have stated that it isn't a CD jacket.