Camp Colors

[orngblsm]

Gents,

I recently got my hands on the regimental order books of the 124th New York from the national archives...Now listed in one of the reports is an issue of 10 camp colors. My question is what are camp colors? I've never heard of them before, nor found any reference to them in any of the company's letters. I assume that they were issued one per company. Any help would be greatly appreciated, My thanks ahead of time....

Respectfully,

[MtnRebel]

Re: Camp Colors

Francis Lord mentions them in his book "They Fought For the Union". When I find the exact reference will post an excerpt.

Wendell O'Reilly

[markj]

Re: Camp Colors

Ryan,

Camp colors were small flags officially used to demarcate the perimeter of an encampment:

CAMP COLORS.

1467. The camp colors are of bunting, eighteen inches square; white for infantry, and red for artillery, with the number of the regiment on them. The pole [for camp colors is] eight feet long.

(United States Army Regulations of 1861, rev. 1863, p. 461)

Unfortunately, the above description was sufficiently vague to allow for considerable variation even from regiment to regiment when it came to these flags. Camp colors were often included among a "stand of colors" presented to regiments and we do know that some Western regiments did use them. There is at least one surviving camp color for the 20th Indiana, which actually served in the East. I have also found documentation in the 1865 Indiana QMG report stating that several camp colors were on-hand. These are also mentioned in various QMG reports in the "Official Records."

However, to make things even more confusing, the design of these flags was officially changed effective 18 January 1862 to resemble a small United States flag. They were inexpensive, "press-dyed" items and were provided to the QM depots under contract by various firms including Paton & Co. of New York. Here's a typical item ID'd to the 146th NYVI:

http://www.dmna.state.ny.us/historic/btlflags/infantry/146thInfColor2.htm

Those famous images of the 110th "Juniata Regiment" Pennsylvania also show similar flags.

Even better, a significant number of camp colors were made by specialty firms such as Tiffany & Co. of New York. Like many other flags of the day, their design depended as much on personal tastes as anything else. Some were quite fancy and made of silk.

We have no precise figures regarding how many regiments actually used them during the war; however, it's a safe bet to say that only a relatively small minority--probably less than 25%--of all Federal regiments used them. Double-ditto for Confederate units.

Noted flag researcher Howard Madaus did a multi-part articles on camp colors, flank markers, and general guide flags a few years back in "Military Collector & Historian." You can also see additional examples of these types of flags in "Echoes of Glory."

Needless to say, also talk with Steve Hill as he is also familiar with camp colors of Eastern regiments (particularly those from Massachusetts). I think he would be VERY interested in knowing about the "ten camp colors" of the 124th NYVI--could you provide further details to me?

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[Jefferson Guards]

Re: Camp Colors

Madaus, Howard Michael, "Camp Colors, General Guide Flags, and Flank Markers in the United States Army, 1861-1865: Part II", Military Collector and Historian, Washington, DC Vol. XLVIII, No.3 Fall 1996

I the above referenced work, there is illustrated a General Guide Flag from the 124th NYSV. It was manufactured by Tiffany & Co in 1863 and prior. It measures between 17 to 18 inches on the hoist by 23 to 24 inches on the fly. This measurement include a dark blue sleeve sewn along the leading edge which held and iron rod which was screwed to the staff. These flags were of the "Stars and Stripes" design. Cantons were manufactured of dark blue silk. It has 34 embroidered white silk stars arranged in rows of 6, 6, 5, 5, 6, 6. The regimental designation was applied with a silk embroidered 124 in blue shadowed block letters from the 3rd to 5th stripe. The state designation N.Y.S.V. was applied over the 9th to 11th stripe in script.

The pole supplied with these flags was 3/4 inch diameter and 39 inches long. The bottoms are cut flush and the last two inches are turned to 1/2 inch diameter to fit in the barrels of the muskets. It was tipped with a finial resembling the British pattern 1791 sergeants pike spear-head( a diamond with a lower cross bar).

Those camp colors that Mark Jaeger referenced as being manufactured by Paton & Co. are probably of the same lot received by the Quartermaster Department and issued by the State of New York to the 47 regiments raised in 1862. 460 flags were issued 10 to a regiment except to the 151st, 138th, 163rd, 177th, and 114th. (Madaus, Howard Michael, "Camp Colors, General Guide Flags, and Flank Markers in the United States Army, 1861-1865: Part II", Military Collector and Historian, Washington, DC Vol. XLVIII, No.2 Summer 1996)

[James Brenner]

Re: Camp Colors

Try the Official Records of the War of the Rebellion. The orders directing their use and design are in there. I don't have access to my set, otherwise I'd try to give you chapter and verse. Perhaps someone else on the Forum can help?

[markj]

Re: Camp Colors

Ryan,

I sent an e-mail to Howard Madaus and he wants to get more information from you regarding the 124th NYVI camp colors in the worst way. You can contact him directly at:

themadai@bresnan.net

Please info me also (my e-mail is markj@purdue.edu) and tell him I sent you!

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[dpalyka]

Re: Camp Colors

How were the numbers done?
Were they painted on or separate pieces of cloth sewn on?

[markj]

Re: Camp Colors

Hi Damon,

Short answer: Both ways, depending on the circumstances. Private presentation camp colors also had embroidered numbers and letters (e.g., those produced by Tiffany & Co. of New York). The 11th IVI did get at least one Tiffany color

Do you own "Echoes of Glory?" You will find a number of examples of camp colors therein. I would also strongly urge you to look at the NY battleflags website:

http://www.dmna.state.ny.us/historic/btlflags/btlflagsindex.htm

Definitely check the Madaus article as this will answer most, if not all, of your questions. I have also attached a pic of a guidon attributed to the 18th ("Lilly's") Indiana Battery. This flag is a close match to camp colors produced under contract after January 1862. Sorry for the poor quality--it was the best I could do, given the rotten lighting conditions in the Indiana Civil War Museum.

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[dpalyka]

Re: Camp Colors

Hi Damon,

Short answer: Both ways, depending on the circumstances. Private presentation camp colors also had embroidered numbers and letters (e.g., those produced by Tiffany & Co. of New York). The 11th IVI did get at least one Tiffany color

Do you own "Echoes of Glory?" You will find a number of examples of camp colors therein. I would also strongly urge you to look at the NY battleflags website:

http://www.dmna.state.ny.us/historic/btlflags/btlflagsindex.htm

Definitely check the Madaus article as this will answer most, if not all, of your questions. I have also attached a pic of a guidon attributed to the 18th ("Lilly's") Indiana Battery. This flag is a close match to camp colors produced under contract after January 1862. Sorry for the poor quality--it was the best I could do, given the rotten lighting conditions in the Indiana Civil War Museum.

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

Thanks, I was thinking of doing the solid color/number ones, not the american flag one...
Any examples of that?
Would that be appropriate?

[Yellowhammer]

Re: Camp Colors

Here is an example of a U.S. Civil War Regulation Issue Camp Colors manufactured by William Scheible of Philadelphia under contract of January 1865 for the Cincinnati Depot.



The flag measures 19" on its hoist by by 19 1/2" on its fly, inclusive of the sleeve by which it is affixed to its staff. This type of flag is framed by press dying a piece of white bunting with the red stripes and the blue canton. The latter measures 10 1/2" high on its hoist by 8 3/4" on its fly, inclusive of the sleeve.



The thrity-five stars are arranged in seven horizontal rows of five stars each. Each star measures approximately 1" across its points and is formed by the press dye process. The sleeve is formed by doubling over the leading edge of the flag for a distance of 1 1/2" and sewing it to form the sleeve. A narrow leather band at each end of the sleeves serves as a reinforcement for the tacks which secure the flag to its staff.



The original wooden staff is 95 3/4" long, inclusive of the 2 1/2" high wooden cylindro-conical finial and the 4 1/2" long pointed brass ferruel.

The original white paper label, 1 1/4" high by 2 5/8" long, is glued to the staff and bears the following five line inscription: "One Camp Color / From Wm. F. Scheible / Philadelphia, PA. / No. 110 Contract January 2d 1865". All 3,000 camp colors contracted by the Cincinnati Depot on January 2 from Scheible are likely of this pattern.



This item is actually currently for sale at the Horse Soldier in Gettysburg. For more info, go to http://www.horsesoldier.com/catalog/index.html

[dpalyka]

Re: Camp Colors

Wow, only $10k each!!!!
Too bad they only have 2...