Federal Canteens

[Dbackfed]

I was wondering if the only differences between the Cincinnati Depot canteens and New York or Philadelphia canteens are the pewter spouts? I am curious to know if the size of the body is different or where the loops are located? Any help would be appreciated.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Federal Canteens

Hallo!

I am cut off from my bookcases' reference library which is randomly boxed in unlabeled boxes for several months (and counting) of house remodeling.

But.. off the top of my head...

-NY have the chain stopper keeper which also has the hole punched in an upper strap "loop" or keeper.
-Cincy depot used cloth straps throughout the War but NY did not switch from leather until the Fall of 1862

Curt

[Andy Ackeret]

Re: Federal Canteens

Jason, look for this book. It has been very helpful, with multiple examples from every depot.

http://www.amazon.com/U-S-Army-Militia-Canteens-1775-1910/dp/0967073170/ref=pd_cp_14_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=1WGDVCBG8DGVC4QR6Y15

[Andy Ackeret]

Re: Federal Canteens

Jason,

After finding my copy of the book above, and doing a quick review, the big difference in the body seems to be the tin spout, starting in 1863 for contracts through the Cincinnati Depot. There appear to minor variants in loops, but those variants seem to exist from contract to contract, and even within the same depot.

[Dbackfed]

Re: Federal Canteens

Hey Andy, does it mention any difference in the shape of the body?

[Andy Ackeret]

Re: Federal Canteens

There are not detailed measurements of every canteen, but they all "look" close. For a good example of historic differences, see Jim Mayo's picture in this thread: http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/...32083-Canteens

[rmilstead]

Re: Federal Canteens

From Jerry Coates, 1995 article on Union Civil War issue canteens which appeared in the Fall 1995 issue (Vol XLVII, No. 3) of the "Military Collector & Historian":

The model 1858 canteen commonly used during the war was discussed in official QMD correspondence in 1857 and prototype pieces were made up in late 1857 or early 1857 but the first significant contracts for the familiar cloth covered obalate round canteens were not awarded until fall of 1858. At the time the sole supplier for uniforms and equipment for the U.S. Army was the Philadelphia Depot facility at the Schuylkill Arsenal in Pennsylvania. Sourcing was a mixture of contracts for component manufacture and in house fabrication. Apparently the body of the canteen (sides soldered together with spout attached) was a component which was contracted out. Pre war the principal supplier was Albert Dorff of Philadelphia. The straps (leather but later twill weave cotton or linen), covers, and stoppers were added at the Depot after the bodies were tested.

Withe the rapid expansion required to meet the needs of the Army after the beginning of the war, necessitating the opening of three more major depots (New York City, Cincinnati, and St. Louis) and some branch operations. Of the major operations New York was strictly a contract house receiving finished goods while both Cincinnati and St. Louis operated on the Philadelpha model. Vendor variations as well as depot variations are seen. Examples are the corrugated ("Bulls eye") style of canteen was only produced in Philadelphia, New York canteens characteristically used a chain connection between the stopper and the canteen body, and there is no evidence that either St. Louis or Cincinnati used anything but cloth straps.

With respect to spouts, Coates states:
"Different shapes the 'white metal' spouts, or necks, of oblate spheroid canteens have been noted. The only conclusion drawn from these obvious variations is a difference in molds used by the various contractors. One general observation may be valid: those canteens with noticeably narrow mouths and smaller lips often appear to exhibit characteristics of early-War manufacture." Coates notes pictures of both Philadelphia and New York depot examples to illustrate these points.

He then goes on:
"One of the most important and significant variations in Federal issue canteens is the appearance of some with tin spouts. These canteens have served to confuse collectors as to their point of origin. The answer lies in several contracts let only by the Cincinnati Depot." Coats indicates the first of these dates from 13 April 1863 and others date from mid 1964. Coates further observes: "The reason for the deviation from the Army standard, without apparent authorization is unclear. There seems to have been no real cost savings and no physical advantage. Nor have similar contrscts from any other depot been noted."

I am not sure that this totally answers the question but Coates is clear that contractor/Depot variations did occur. However the canteens were also contracted for against a QMD specification guaranteeing a certain degree of uniformity. Hope this helps.

Dick Milstead
Hardaway's Alabama Battery
The Company of Military Historians

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Federal Canteens

Hallo!

A passing comment on canteens in general...

The "reinforcing"' rings or 'bulls eyes" evolved from the "smooth side" but not as one consistent form or pattern. Meaning the number and width of the rings can vary.

Curt

[Dbackfed]

Re: Federal Canteens

Thank you everyone for your help. Much appreciated!

[Jimmayo]

Re: Federal Canteens

http://www.angelfire.com/ma4/j_mayo/uscanteen.html

Picture is worth a thousand words or something like that.