Model 1817 Common Rifle - Documented Use at Fredericksburg

[Res Ipsa]

Gentlemen,

Hello ... this is my first post. We recently uncovered an unusual fired .54 caliber Gardner bullet a few hundred yards in front of the Stone Wall at Fredericksburg (private property, with permission, professional archaeology project). What makes it unusual is the specimen's heptagonal cross-section. It traveled down a bore that had seven lands and seven deep grooves. Having examined and cataloged countless fired bullets over the years, this rifling pattern is new to me.

I am thinking the Model 1817 Common Rifle or the M1841 may be likely candidates for the "smoking gun".

My question is: does anyone know which Confederate units might have carried the M1817 Common Rifle or M1841 in December, 1862 (1st Fredericksburg) or May, 1863 (2nd Fredericksburg)? Certainly a number of "obsolete" shoulder arms were in use at this time, but I would like more specific information that might exist as to documented field use of M1817s and M1841s in the Army of Northern Virginia during this time period. Period photo with unit provenance would be ideal.

This may be a shot in the dark (no pun intended!), but you guys eat, live and breathe this stuff. Feel free to shoot me a PM if you want.

Thanks in advance.

YOS,
Jon Gerlach

[Res Ipsa]

Re: Model 1817 Common Rifle - Documented Use at Fredericksburg

Question about the forty-one answered ... thanks to the excellent article & thread on this forum.

[Mississippian]

Re: Model 1817 Common Rifle - Documented Use at Fredericksburg

Several companies of Barksdales Mississippi Brigade (13th, 17th, 18th, & 21st MS) are known to have used the 1841 "Mississippi" rifle, which was still very useful up until the end of the war. You could probably find a few scattered in every brigade of Lee's army up until 1864.

The Common Rifle is a much rarer beast, but you can sometimes see them in ones and twos in ordnance reports. I know Hood's Division turned one in to the Ordnance Dept in August 1863.

Will MacDonald

Will MacDonald

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: Model 1817 Common Rifle - Documented Use at Fredericksburg

I've seen a number of arsenal converted 1817 Common Rifles (cone-in-barrel conversion from flint to percussion) over the last ten years or so. So, some were rated above third class arms and converted... But I have no idea how many might have been used or by whom...
It certainly seems like a possibility...

[MarkTK36thIL]

Re: Model 1817 Common Rifle - Documented Use at Fredericksburg

After purchasing a drum bolster conversion 1817, they started to interest me much more. The 1817 had bolster conversion, drum bolster, and even cone in barrel. The 1817 had a wide variety of people that converted them, including some of the CS armories/cottage industry. Unfortunately or fortunately, mine will be used as a study piece and not taken into the field.
The sad note is that many were recovered back to flintlock because of flintlock interests in the 1960s/70s it seems. Maybe an ol' timer can reinforce that idea....

The CS did convert them, as evident by at least one lathe-turned barrel, and added bayonet lugs. Murphy and Madaus did a nice write up on them in their CS Rifles and Muskets book.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Model 1817 Common Rifle - Documented Use at Fredericksburg

Hallo!

99% Plus of my reference books are boxed or stored for the Nev er Ending House Remodeling Project(s) that started May of 2025.

:( :(

Tracking M1817 Common Rifles is VERY hard because of the lack of "detail' in Period and ordnance reports. The 1859 arsenal/depot survey is about as close as one can get in numbers just before the War and where.
All too often, they are recorded generically as "rifles" or in ammo requisitions as ".54" so it is hard to know whether say
M1803/14, M1841, M1855, or Lorenz many times.

Yes, some are cynical, and say that ANY M1817 in flint is probably a "retroversion" or "un-alteration" from percussion back to flint. Knowledge and experience, PLUS close examination (where possible) can usually detect retroversion work- especially the back side of the lock plate where say Rifle Shoppe parts had been used.
Retroversions are largely a greed thing as for a few dollars more in replacement parts, and a little fitting and aging work, boost the selling price making it worthwhile to the seller. NOT that there are not surviving flintlocks, just that many of them were altered/converted to percussion by the methods shared above.

And we also get teased by Period images of men holding them that are not ID'd.

Curt

[Craig L Barry]

Re: Model 1817 Common Rifle - Documented Use at Fredericksburg

The primary difference with the M1817 is that it is the only primary issue weapon in U.S. military history to be entirely produced by way of private contracts with none of the rifles being made at a National Armory. Though the design was created at the Harper’s Ferry Armory, the entire production of 38,200 were made by five outside contractors:

H. Deringer of Philadelphia — 13,000
Nathan Starr & Co. of Middleton, Conn. — 10,200
Simeon North of Middleton, Conn. — 7,200
R. Johnson of Middleton, Conn. — 5,000
R. & J. D. Johnson of Middleton, Conn. — 3,000

I would go so far as to say it be unusual if there were not at least some M-1817s in the ranks of every major battle before the mid-point of the war. I don't have the citation in front of me (it is in one of The Unfinished Fight books I think), but while gleaning the fields at Fredericksburg for arms after the battle, the Confederates picked up something like 13 flintlock muskets which were still in use by Union troops.

As pointed out, the frustrating part is that Ordnance returns were rarely specific to a particular model beyond the bore diameter. For example, "Rifles .54 caliber" could mean the M-1817, a M-1854 Austrian Rifle or a US 1841, etc. There is no way of knowing definitively.

[Mississippian]

Re: Model 1817 Common Rifle - Documented Use at Fredericksburg

You do see the "Deringer Rifle" cal .54 listed from time to time. IIRC Richmond sent a number to Bragg and Kirby Smith in east Tennessee after Perryville.

Will MacDonald

[Res Ipsa]

Re: Model 1817 Common Rifle - Documented Use at Fredericksburg

Good replies, thanks everyone. It seems safe to assume the most common heptagonal bored .54 calibre long arm in use in the Army of Northern Virginia was the M1841. The 18th GA was heavily engaged at the stone wall opposite the site where this bullet was recovered, and they received some M1841's according to the M1841 thread. I'll check with the NPS guys to see what they can add.

If anyone has a link to a period photo of a member of the 18th GA holding an 1841, that would be terrific.

[David Fox]

Re: Model 1817 Common Rifle - Documented Use at Fredericksburg

Regarding the often-cited report of flintlocks recovered by Confederate gleaners from positions previously held by Federals at Fredericksburg as proof of Union usage of such weapons. May I respectfully disagree. I'd posit this is much more likely evidence of individual Rebel infantrymen making an unofficial swap of their obsolescent firelocks for abandoned Federal percussion arms before detailed Confederate parties cleared the field of useful weapons and accoutrement...and reacquired the flinters for the South.