US Springield Model 1861 Identification Numbers?

[Phil McBride]

I've not been able to find if Springfield Model 1861 rifled muskets were issued with identification numbers etched into the metal or stamped onto the stock, or if there were no identification numbers. Any guidance would be appreciated.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: US Springield Model 1861 Identification Numbers?

Hallo!

Short Answer: no.

As made, there were no numbers or numbering system for Harpers Ferry, Springfield, or contractors.

Although once in a Blue Moon one can sometimes find one with a "rack number" such as a tacked on number shield likely used for fort type garrison racks.

Really scarce and rare, though. IIRC, I may have seen two, in my life.


Curt

[Phil McBride]

Re: US Springield Model 1861 Identification Numbers?

Thank you, Curt. As a follow-up question, if there were no ID numbers, do you know if there was any more or less standardized method to record which weapon was issued to which soldier?

[MarkTK36thIL]

Re: US Springield Model 1861 Identification Numbers?

Some weapons had buttstock/rack numbers stamped in them for numbering for soldiers, but I don't think this was widely enforced or utilized to a great extent.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: US Springield Model 1861 Identification Numbers?

Hallo!

"As a follow-up question, if there were no ID numbers, do you know if there was any more or less standardized method to record which weapon was issued to which soldier."

This will sound strange, but it was not "important" at the time.

However, arms with serial numbers such as revolvers or most (non-government) carbines could be recorded. IIRC, the first series of (government made) longarms with production aka serial numbers started with the M1873 Trapdoors.

Curt

[Phil McBride]

Re: US Springield Model 1861 Identification Numbers?

Thanks Curt and Mark,

I asked because I read on another forum that a scene in the movie Glory features issuing Enfields with numbers to the new recruits in the 54th MASS. And I've put a similar vignette in the manuscript of my new novel, only with new Springfields. Now to figure out how I can rewrite to keep the "authenticity" in my historical fiction.

[Pvt Schnapps]

Re: US Springield Model 1861 Identification Numbers?

Technically, according to the OD's "Instructions for Making Quarterly Returns of Ordnance and Ordnance Stores," "Stores cannot be issued to enlisted men" (para. 40, p. 24). They can only be transferred between officers (or an NCO of the Ordnance Department), and are accounted for on his quarterly returns. If Private V. Shiftless deserts, taking his arms and accouterments with him (I'm not making that up -- the Instructions actually use this as an example :) ), the officer notes it, preferably in a little memo book, and charges him for it on the next muster roll. If there's any question of responsibility the officer, or his superior, calls a board of survey for a mini-trial to assign blame and responsibility for paying up.

Kautz, in "The Company Clerk" provides a "Register of Public Property" for ordnance "issued" (hard to get away from that word in real life -- there's a separate register for QM "company property"), and mentions the use of numbers or letters to prevent thefts or exchanges of items between soldiers. That suggests that officers used different systems to protect their pocketbooks against loss. The Ordnance Department apparently didn't care to that level of detail, so you can probably keep the scene as written, just not with any OD stamps or etchings...

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: US Springield Model 1861 Identification Numbers?

Hallo!

The "Enfield" also did not carry a production/serial number.

But the British were (mostly) better about it- they did engrave company and man numbers, etc. as far back as the wrist plates on "Brown Bess's."
And because of the lack of interchangeability on pre 4th Model Enfields , they sometimes matched the number on the bayonet so that a pair that fitted together worked.

"Glory" allowed a bit of a modern practice to "creep in" in the script writing.

Curt

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: US Springield Model 1861 Identification Numbers?

"Glory" allowed a bit of a modern practice to "creep in" in the script writing.

Exactly!

Some states, such as Massachusetts, did develop numbering systems for arms, but nothing like a 'serial number'. Typically, they consisted of regiment/company/roster position. Somewhere in my archives, I have a pic of a Mass. Enfield marked this way on the nosecap of the stock.

On the CS side, there is much documentation about the engraved numbers that appeared on buttplates, rammers, and bayonets. But that's a different beast altogether!

I hope this was hepful!

[Camp_Randall]

Re: US Springield Model 1861 Identification Numbers?

I have an 1863 Springfield that has "188" stamped on the barrel flat near the proof markings, and also on the stock opposite the lock. This was from a Wisconsin regiment.

[Craig L Barry]

Re: US Springield Model 1861 Identification Numbers?

It does seem strange that serial numbers were not in use for mid-19th century military arms, but it was not a feature of the US Civil War-era. Hand made arms like the 1854 Austrian Rifle had some numbered parts, but that was for matching them up during assembly.

[David Fox]

Re: US Springield Model 1861 Identification Numbers?

Have hypothesized that various non-issue stampings of numerals or letters in musket stocks or barrel breeches were evidence of ownership by individual states, and many likely post war.

[Bill]

Re: US Springield Model 1861 Identification Numbers?

Curt,

If you are ever in the Philadelphia area I can show you a third.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: US Springield Model 1861 Identification Numbers?

Hallo!

A deal!

Thanks. It would increase my knowledge of an artifact pool by 33.33 +/- %. :) :)

Curt