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"Authenticity" - Can It Go Too Far?

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  • "Authenticity" - Can It Go Too Far?

    Folks,

    Just my two cents worth on a topic I have personal interest in as a researcher in the area of Civil War Material culture. This is the text of an older piece I put together a couple of years ago but never did anything with at the time.

    "Authenticity" – Can it go too far?

    I have considered posting on this subject some time but never gathered my thoughts until now. At the risk of being declared a heretic or being dropped by the moderators from the forum, I still believe that this subject is worthy of discussion. Is there a risk in pursuing absolute authenticity in replicating items of Civil War material culture particularly uniforms, equipment, and weapons? A great deal of the focus of discussion on this forum is on producing better, more accurate replicas of these items. A noble pursuit, and one that furthers not only the quality of individual impressions but research and knowledge in the subject as well. The overall availability of highly accurate raw materials (yard goods, finishes, etc) and of well crafted replicas through serious vendors is really amazing at least compared to 40 or 50 years ago. This, however, begs the issue of whether the quality is so good that items produced today could easily become the “fakes” of tomorrow?

    Let me say, up front, I do not mean to imply in any way that the fine craftsmen and craftswomen producing these items would engage in or support illegal or unethical activities. Nor would their customers or other serious hobbyists do so. In fact, my real concern is not specifically with unscrupulous individuals today at all, but rather in what can happen 30, 40, or 50 years in the future. Having been around in this hobby for that long I have seen what the passage of time can do naturally to items to age them particularly to an item that has already been used in “field-like” conditions. Further complicating the problem, over the years it is easy to lose track of the provenience of an item since it can pass through multiple hands. What ends up in a box in someone’s basement 50 years from now may not have a clear or traceable history.

    Can’t happen you say. While it can be argued that experts will not be fooled easily, how many times today are new “discoveries” vetted before changing hands. Sales on eBay, for example, indicate the relative lack of control in this regard. Also, some of the most knowledgeable current subject matter authorities are themselves producers of such items and strive to make their products authentic to a high degree of detail. In the future, this serious attention to detail can easily lead to mistaking an honestly produced replica for an original. In more mature and “mainstream” areas of the art and antiques marketplace it happens all the time. Notable examples of “faked” antiquities have slipped past experts, connoisseurs and even museum staffs for years. This is, in fact, my biggest concern. That is, future “discoveries”, if good enough, may serve to contaminate the legitimate pool of genuine original items thereby impacting future research. Remember I am not talking in a year or two; I am talking in a couple of decades or five.

    As a personal case of this type of an occurrence, recently in a discussion with old friend Les Jensen, now at the West Point Museum, he related a story of someone approaching him at an Antiques show and telling him of a recently discovered rare Federal haversack inner-liner bag that he had come upon, asking if Les would be interested in seeing it. When the bag was produced, Les observed the “contractor” stamp on the piece and was amused to inform the individual that he was quite aware of the specific “contractor” and talked with him occasionally. The stamp on the then confused person’s inner-liner read “R.M. Milstead Washington City.” This bag was one I had made in the 1960’s when reproducing an original haversack that I owned at the time.

    I believe that there are things that can be done to medicate this problem. For example, the insistence by the consumers (that’s us) and distributors that craftspeople sign and date their work is an approach. Done in an appropriately subtle way there should be no worry relative to the impact upon the authenticity of the replica. Charlie Childs has done this in his work for years and it is widely recognized for the level of authenticity he achieved. Also, slight but obvious modifications to reproduced makers marks or inventing non-existent makers achieves the same result and is a very clever trick. However, the result is achieved, I would submit that serious, historically focused enthusiasts should be concerned that the quest for authenticity can go too far."

    As I said my $0.02 and perhaps some food for thought.

    Dick Milstead
    The Company of Military Historians
    Hardaway's Alabama Battery
    Last edited by Eric Tipton; 08-06-2017, 11:34 AM.
    Richard Milstead

  • #2
    Re: "Authenticity" - Can It Go Too Far?

    I believe clothing items will not be easily faked. For one, buttons. If you plan to pass off a CS jacket, you will certainly need multiple buttons and they will need to be in good to great condition, which presents the problem of a person spending well into 4 or 5 figures to get matching or some matching buttons on the coat.

    Muskets, even the BEST defarbed ones, can easily be spotted from an original. If you buy a defarbed musket as an original, then you should have studied reference books more and paid for an expensive learning experience.
    My reference library is probably in the $2,000 to $3,000 range, and as a collector, you need to invest in learning what you want to collect as much as the items you actually do purchase.
    Jason David

    Peter Pelican
    36th Illinois Co. "B"
    Prodigal Sons Mess
    Old Northwest Vols.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: "Authenticity" - Can It Go Too Far?

      When I visited the V&A Museum in London as part of a trip hitting several museums with and speaking with their conservators when I was researching riveted maille armour, I learned that at the V&A when they splice rings into maille they stamp each ring with a tiny "V&A" so that future historians will be able to distinguish the original work from the restoration.

      I'm in the middle of trying to make a replica H&P Conversion based off of an Armisport 1842. I've considered marking the parts "REPRO" or similar, but many of the pieces are obviously reproductions/castings to the trained eye.

      But, in my opinion, this ship has sailed a long time ago, as the story of your haversack shows.

      Steve
      Steve Sheldon

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: "Authenticity" - Can It Go Too Far?

        With any textile they could probably source the material and its age by a close examination of the fibers. I know with Will Dunniway's ferrotypes, he signs and dates every one of them on the back with a nail for this very reason. Yours are valid points.
        Joe Marti

        ...and yes, I did use the search function...

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: "Authenticity" - Can It Go Too Far?

          Hallo!

          IMHO...

          The difference between a high quality reproduction done to the Gold Standard of "Period raw materials, Period patterns or models, and Period methods of construction or manufacture/production" and a fake or counterfeit is the (criminal) intent to swindle or cheat people out of their money.

          Counterfeiting is the intersection of two lines:

          1. Being the knowledge and skill of the forger when it comes to chemical, heat treating, abrasion, and "weathering" art and science. AND...

          2. The amount of knowledge on the part of the buyer in being an educated consumer and informed customer about the item as to what is right and what is wrong about it.

          This is not a new thing. The birth of the repro Civil War firearm industry almost did not happen in the late 1950's as there was significant concern on the part of collectors that Italian reproduced revolvers would be counterfeited. "Concessions" to that fear were built into the reproductions making them NOT actual reproductions but rather "replicas" with such things as different number of rifling grooves, barrel twists in opposite directions, modern screw threads, dimensions that are off such as cylinder length or barrel length, etc.

          But, it takes a an educated consumer and informed customer to know about the originals and repro items as to what is right and what is wrong about it.

          Today's museum-quality, ultimate, "authentic" items will be some of the fakes and counterfeits of today, tomorrow, and especially more so 50-100 plus years into the future because Time adds the very best "Patina." And we will always have buyers who are not educated or informed.

          There are a few makers who subtlety "code" or mark their products. The excellent buckle and plate reproductions made by Hanover Brass are discretely marked with a tiny "H." (I had a friend buy a rare Confederate belt plate from a well known local antique shop for $400 way back when. He was excited, until I got out a magnifying glass and showed him the "H." Fortunately, the shop owner was a good guy and refunded his money.)

          After one of my Italian Enfield "retroversions" that I had used in the field for 3-4 years was taken as an original by a respected CW collector with over 40 years experience and over a thousand guns in his collection... I started stamping my name and date under the buttplate, and the name of the person I made it for.

          So, any counterfeiters reading this, just take off the butt plate and get rid of the stampings.

          Curt
          Last edited by Curt Schmidt; 08-06-2017, 09:44 AM.
          Curt Schmidt
          In gleichem Schritt und Tritt, Curt Schmidt

          -Hard and sharp as flint...secret, and self-contained, and solitary as an oyster.
          -Haplogroup R1b M343 (Subclade R1b1a2 M269)
          -Pointless Folksy Wisdom Mess, Oblio Lodge #1
          -Vastly Ignorant
          -Often incorrect, technically, historically, factually.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: "Authenticity" - Can It Go Too Far?

            Some makers over the years have had to resort to tiny initials or signs to avoid their products being sold as originals - Chris Schreiber comes to mind.
            Soli Deo Gloria
            Doug Cooper

            "The past is never dead. It's not even past." William Faulkner

            Please support the CWT at www.civilwar.org

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: "Authenticity" - Can It Go Too Far?

              To clarify my thoughts as expressed in my original post.
              Several of the above commentators seem to be homing in on the “buyer beware” aspects (which I probably caused by my reference to eBay sales) and not the real reason for my concern as I termed it: contamination of the legitimate pool of originals for study. An equally likely way this can (and does) happen when that “treasure” found in that box in the basement is given to the local historical society or museum and displayed. How many of us examine an item in such a repository without questioning the “authenticity” nor can we run “forensic” tests. In a few cases, I have not even been allowed to even touch the artifact! Anyone who believes curatorial staffs, even at major museums, are experts on everything in their collections or that acquisition records are always accurate hasn’t dealt with them to any great extent. They can’t be and records do get “garbled”. This is not meant as an indictment of the staffs at such institutions in anyway, they are generally understaffed with limited resources. It’s just “stuff” happens.

              I am reminded of a story from the American Antique furniture market that I believe dates from the late ‘60’s or early’70’s. A remarkable “Plymouth Colony” turned arm chair, what is referred to as a “Brewster Chair”, came on to the market via a well-established dealer. The chair, which had been discovered by the dealer sitting in the parlor of a house in Maine, was of such importance that it generated significant interest among several major museums. Ultimately the piece was acquired by a major public collection in the Midwest but not until it had gone through several significant vettings both by independent experts and the museum’s curatorial staff. It was widely publicized and put on prominent display within the museum’s public galleries. Several years after it was acquired, a story published in an independent Journal discussed a similar chair which a wood sculptor claimed to have made to demonstrate his skill in response to a challenge by a friend about whether he could reproduce a chair well enough that it would “fool” all the experts. He did; the chair he produced ultimately was proved to be the one in the Museum’s collection. The modern attribution was ultimately only confirmed when x-rays of some of the joints showed that modern “twist” drill bits rather than period “spoon” bits were used to drill the holes. This was the “signature” left by the sculptor to “prove” he had made the piece.

              Putting aside legal and ethical questions (I do not know how either maker or the dealer managed to avoid being arrested for fraud or sued for the deceit, maybe they both were), the point of the story is that even with some very significant artifacts proper “due diligence”, even by experts, can sometimes still not prevent mistakes in authentication. At least this guy signed his work, if in a very clever manner. In my musings above: a.) I did not to talk to the process of knowingly producing a fake nor b.) did I suggest that honestly made replicas couldn’t be differentiated from hundred plus year old original artifacts by using extensive “forensics”. I specifically said I wasn’t addressing the former and will freely concede the latter. The real points I was trying to make were that the “state of today’s art” combined with the passage of significant time could create what gets confused for original. I, at least, personally think labeling one’s work in a relatively unobtrusive way doesn’t interfere with the authenticity of the replica whether it is a weapon, a leather accouterment, or a piece of reproduction clothing. In fact, such marking rather than being looked on as “farb” should be thought of as a mark of pride of workmanship like hallmarks. Several of the folk who responded pointed out some excellent craftsmen who do follow this practice. Nick Duvall also was a fine craftsman who marked his work. I, for one, applaud this and encourage others to respect the practice as well.

              By the way at the beginning of the last paragraph of my “musings” I meant mediate not medicate! I am afraid here at the “old folks home” we do too much of the latter and not enough of the former. Poor proof reading, my apologies.

              Dick Milstead
              The Company of Military Historians
              Hardaway’s Alabama Battery
              Richard Milstead

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: "Authenticity" - Can It Go Too Far?

                I think a "tell" is not a bad idea.
                I had a custom reproriginal Enfield built back in about 1999/2000 (aka "The Money Pit"... don't try this at home, kids!). The gunsmith did a fine job with repro barrel and rammer on a Dunlap stock (based on an original, not a parker hale) and all original lock and hardware. The piece had markings in the barrel channel and under the buttplate identifying it as a repro.

                For the last ten years or so, I have been marking clothing that I make inside a pocket.
                John Wickett
                Former Carpetbagger
                Administrator (We got rules here! Be Nice - Sign Your Name - No Farbisms)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: "Authenticity" - Can It Go Too Far?

                  Hallo!

                  Some of your work may be in a museum 200 years from now ID'd to CW soldier named "JOHN WICKETT" based on his "laundry label" that he wrote in the pocket.

                  :) :) :)

                  Just a-funnin'....

                  Say.. what ever happened to your M1861 Project? :)

                  Curt
                  Curt Schmidt
                  In gleichem Schritt und Tritt, Curt Schmidt

                  -Hard and sharp as flint...secret, and self-contained, and solitary as an oyster.
                  -Haplogroup R1b M343 (Subclade R1b1a2 M269)
                  -Pointless Folksy Wisdom Mess, Oblio Lodge #1
                  -Vastly Ignorant
                  -Often incorrect, technically, historically, factually.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: "Authenticity" - Can It Go Too Far?

                    Dick,
                    This discussion has been going on for many years with collectors. The amount of old reenactment gear is starting to show up some stands out but other where the person collected original items and reenacted makes this hard since dealers must figure what is original. Twice I have helped sort it out. In the late 70’s and early 80’s many reenactors used some original gear along with reproductions but this was also the time it was in all antique stores and could be picked up for a song. We are talking about the times when original bayonets were cheaper than the new Indian reproductions, so many originals got modified to fit the reproduction muskets.

                    I have seen reproduction chevrons sold as originals in the late 90’s and without looking close the amount of use made them look right. The dates of 50 to 100 years from now is wrong I contend there is a fair amount already in collections and since makers are using more period method period problems are showing up as well. Acid rot in leather that was thought to take 30+ years to show I have seen in reproduction leather gear just 10 years old. This is one of the reasons I set up a reproduction collection at the Atlanta History Center years ago and I donate items to them along with copies of all our stamps stamped in leather or cloth.

                    One change we made years ago was a hole but in the back of the C.S. Officers buttons and to our surprise several people that had bought them got upset and stopped buying them and we later found out they were faking the aging process and selling them as originals. The hole was an accidental change when we had them gold plated.

                    This is just my two cents and I do not know how to put the genie back in the bottle. I have 30-year-old tin ware samples that look just like the originals and they have never been outside.

                    Curt that has already happened and is published in a book as original and unless you knew the reenactors name you would think it was original too. It is not a gun of but a name stencil.

                    David Jarnagin
                    djarnagin@bellsouth.net

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: "Authenticity" - Can It Go Too Far?

                      Originally posted by Curt Schmidt View Post
                      Say.. what ever happened to your M1861 Project? :)
                      My gunsmith has had a number of health problems, so...
                      Yeah.. still waitin'! Moved to Georgia and back, for crying out loud!

                      The Enfield was "The Money Pit". The M'61 needs a nickname for this wait. :clock: :cry_smile
                      John Wickett
                      Former Carpetbagger
                      Administrator (We got rules here! Be Nice - Sign Your Name - No Farbisms)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: "Authenticity" - Can It Go Too Far?

                        Hi!

                        From the movie of the same name... a "NeverEnding Story."

                        I have hundreds of them. :) :( ;(

                        Curt
                        Curt Schmidt
                        In gleichem Schritt und Tritt, Curt Schmidt

                        -Hard and sharp as flint...secret, and self-contained, and solitary as an oyster.
                        -Haplogroup R1b M343 (Subclade R1b1a2 M269)
                        -Pointless Folksy Wisdom Mess, Oblio Lodge #1
                        -Vastly Ignorant
                        -Often incorrect, technically, historically, factually.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: "Authenticity" - Can It Go Too Far?

                          Originally posted by Curt Schmidt View Post
                          From the movie of the same name... a "NeverEnding Story."
                          I'd say that's about perfect!
                          John Wickett
                          Former Carpetbagger
                          Administrator (We got rules here! Be Nice - Sign Your Name - No Farbisms)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: "Authenticity" - Can It Go Too Far?

                            I've often had this thought in regards to maker marks. I've had the thought of having stamp made up for the items I reproduce with my "contractor" name in the correct style. My thought process is no soldier during the war knew or cared who made their gear.

                            At the Front does this with their WW2 reproductions. They have a contractor label that looks correct with their own information.
                            Scott Sheets
                            Joliet, IL

                            36th Illinois
                            Dirty Shirts

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