M1861 Contract muskets

[JimKindred]

Re: gun laws applicable to antique firearms

"Sometimes it's better to ask forgiveness than permission."

James,

Good in theory but not in practice as BATF does not operate on that principle. They are happy to help with questions before the fact but when someone is caught with a violation they rarely have a sense of humor.

[Dingus]

Re: gun laws applicable to antique firearms

"Sometimes it's better to ask forgiveness than permission."

James,

Good in theory but not in practice as BATF does not operate on that principle.

You're right again. The batmen do have a "shoot first" and "we're the government, we don't need to ask nuthin'" reputation. Thanks.

[Bill]

Re: Modern Marks

I recently got my first musket and I am interested on the proper way to file off the modern marks on the musket. Thanks in advance for the help.

Bill,

I would suggest an extra step before you start using a file on your rifle barrel. Take the round end of a light weight ball peen hammer, and LIGHTLY tap the stampings on your rifle. Metal stamps don't remove any metal, they just move it around. If you you run your finger over the stampings, you'll be able to feel what I talking about. The stampings will have raised edges. LIGHTLY tapping these stampings will tend to push the metal back where it started, and leave you less material to file away.

I use fine files to remove the stampings, and finish up with #400, then #600 wet/dry sandpaper and WD-40.

[Minieball577]

Re: Modern Marks

Bill stated "LIGHTLY tapping these stampings will tend to push the metal back where it started, and leave you less material to file away.

I use fine files to remove the stampings, and finish up with #400, then #600 wet/dry sandpaper and WD-40."


Jim, This is VERY good advice. BE sure, as the post says, to LIGHTLY tap, as a deep peen from a hammer would require much more filing than you want! Also, you do not want to deform anything in the breech area!.

As far as sand paper goes, the best place to find the very fine grit paper, the 400 and 600 grit, is at your local Auto Supply store. They sell it in their re-finishing or auto detailing section.

Best of luck.

[KentuckyReb]

Poorly pierced nipple...

Figured that would get some attention... :D

Just wondering if anybody else has had trouble, particularly with a newer '42, with the durn thing not wanting to go off, misfiring because evidently the touch-hole in the cone is too small. If so, is there a source for cones with a little larger-diameter touch-hole? Drill bit won't get a bite on it for s__t.

(Guess this really ought to be either in COI or The Sinks. Sorry, Mod. The question just occurred to me while I was reading and I didn't stop to think what folder I was posting in. Gotta go back to regular coffee, I guess.)

[Vuhginyuh]

Re: Poorly pierced nipple...

I would try contacting the manufacturer first, then maybe a gun builder that specializes in 18th and 19th century pieces.

I have had bad experiences with gunsmiths who work on and are trained in such things as modern Browning and Remington systems. Sometimes that knowledge will not translate to an antiquated system.

You don’t want powder in the vent…you want the fulminate to flash through the vent into your breech.

I own two US Model 1808 Flintlock Contract Muskets by Thomas French.
One has been converted to a common rifle and had the vent bored,tapped and fitted with a ''new'' vent. I forget what this is called. Im sure procuring a new barrel is a more efficient way to deal with this if you need such a drastic solution.

Or maybe you can just make the hole bigger...

[hireddutchcutthroat]

Re: Poorly pierced nipple...

You may want to check the breach area for any left over cosmoline. Or If you wanted to you could send it to me. I could drill it out for you.

[Justin Runyon]

Re: Poorly pierced nipple...

I had the same problem when I got mine several years back. I drilled out the cone myself and its fired everytime since.

[NY Pvt]

Re: Poorly pierced nipple...

The small holes in the nipples on some reproduction weapons are made that way. They are for competition shooting. While I am not sure how the small whole makes it makes it more accurate or the exact reason behind it, they are not made with reenactors in mind. I found that when I fired only a few rounds through my Enfield with the small wholed nipple, I normally didn’t have any problems. But after repeated times firing, such as at McDowell it just refused to go off (Some Confed got lucky). You could try to drill it out but be careful it does not crack, because that could be trouble!

I bought an after market one in Gettysburg at Regimental Quartermaster. I am sure other places have them as well such as logwood.

By any chance is your 42’ an Armi-Sport? It seems most new Armi-Sports I have encountered have that type of nipple.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Poorly vented cone...

Hallo Kameraden!

One theory for the small flash hole on a modern nipple (period US: cone) is that it concentrates the stream of flash like a magnifying lens does the sun- making for a more sure and faster ignition of the main powder charge through the angles of the flash channel.

A smaller "hole" or vent allows less gas blow-back, making the pressure exerted by a given charge of gun powder more efficient (so less can be used).
Less powder tends to equal greater economy for competitive shooters, but also gives a slight edge in accuracy by retarding flinch).
In my N-SSA daze, my custom-built M1855 was sighted in for a 375 grain semi-wad cutter "Minie" instead of the Civil War era 510, and 36 grains of FFF instead of the period 60 of FF. (Off the bench, at 50 yards, that combo produced a group the size of a .25 coin.)

As the size of the flash hole/nipple vent does not change, accuracy due to powder charge pressure would be consistent with either a small or a large opening- just less pressure from a larger one.

In the N-SSA, the guns are often cleaned after each target event, which sometimes is after only 2-3 rounds- so the small "hole" fouling closed is not the same problem as for reenactors (although for reenacting, I had an Armi-Sport M1861 that misfired due to a fouled cone after ONLY 2-3 rounds- before I replaced the "N-SSA nipple."

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt

[Matt Woodburn]

Re: Poorly vented cone...

Micah,

I just drilled one of my cones a few weeks ago. I've done this several times and I know it doesn't look like the bit is cutting. It takes a long time. Be patient. You'll eventually see some powder coming out by the bit. The powder is very small pieces of metal. It took me 30-40 minutes. Also go with a very small diameter bit. A bit that's too large won't cut. The trick is not to apply too much pressure that the bit breaks which is easy to do with the size bit you should be doing this with. If you see the bit flex, back off on pressure. I've broken bits off in cones and getting them out is a pain. You also don't want to open a cone too much because you'll let too much pressure come out the cone when the main charge goes off. Fire and hot gasses come back in your face which is not too cool. If you give up, go to a local auto parts store in your area that has a machine shop. They can drill it for next to nothing. And while you're there if you have a repro model 42, have them grind down the ugly steel front sight and put a brass bead weld on it that you can shape to look like the originals.

Best Regards,

[James Brenner]

Re: Poorly vented cone...

I recently purchased an M1842 from John Zimmerman and it had two problems with it. The first was with the cone. A friend of mine has a drill press and I was able to enlarge the hole so that a nipple pick can fit through it. The other problem was that, after firing - misfiring, in this case - the trigger would lock behind the sear. I thought at first that the trigger was malformed, but it turned out that the bar extending from the sear was bent, allowing the trigger to slip beneath it. I'm probably not describing this well, but I took the musket back to John and he fixed it on the spot. He simply put the sear in a vice and reshaped the bar. I've had no problems since. Still, for the price we pay for these things, you'd think that the quality control would be a little better.

[Darrell Cochran]

Re: Poorly vented cone...

My experience with repro Springfields has not to do with the size of the hole in the cone but in the way the vent itself is designed ... In the two repro Enfields I've owned, there is very nearly a straight line from the cone through the vent and into the breech, while in my 1855 Springfield and my son's 1861, the vent runs at a 90 degree angle from the opening of the cone -- Thus it is much easier for fouling to block the way. I had relatively little problem with this in my Euroarms 1855 while my son's much older Navy Arms 1861 drove him nuts fouling and refusing to fire until I took the drill not to the cone but to the vent.

[KentuckyReb]

Re: Poorly vented cone...

Been pretty busy, haven't been able to check the board for a little. Yes, Dane, it's an Armi-Sport. And I had acouple of buds tell me that their '61s gave the same problem periodically. One of them, the 'go-to guy' for firearms issues, also alluded to a poor fire channel configuration with the Springfields. I kinda wondered about that myself, when I had the cone out...it DID look a little strange to have that much of an angle involved, as if counting on the flame from the cap to 'ricochet' its way into the breech of the weapon. For Matt Woodburn's response, I think I might try it again, then. I was using a very small diameter bit...an eyeful of hot gas occurred to me as well, when I decided to try to work on the thing. But I was apparently expecting a little too quick a progress. So I'll try her again. The vent, now...hm. Never had any trouble getting a pick in it. I think it's okay...if I get the cone opened up a little, (or get a different one like Dane) and STILL have this difficulty, then I'll give the vent itself a little attention. Something I didn't know, though, Matt... originals were brass? Hm. So just grind the thing down and get a brass bead on there. 'Bout the same length/width/height, then I can work on it with a fine file to refine the shape of it, something like that? And to Mr. Brenner, I too think there could be a little improvement in QC at the production end. This thing costs me around $500, then at the first event I have it at, one of the pins on the side of the mainspring, that hold it in the proper position within the musket, managed to break on me and I had to have it replaced. Kinda toasts yer shorts. But. All is well now, 'cept for the cone problem (and the front sight...thanks Matt). I dearly love my punkin-slinger. I get those things taken care of and have it defarbed and all will be right with the world. Thanks a lot, guys.

[flattop32355]

Re: Poorly vented cone...

From what I have read, you don't want to bore out the cone diameter beyond a 1/32 bit size to prevent the blowback problem...which is probably why they went with the angled vent anyway.
My used 1863 Springfield, which is supposedly a EuroArms that was imported for Navy Arms, also is a bear for clogging. When I compared it to a ArmiSport Enfield I bought, the cone diameter is no more than half that of the Enfield. That little feller is gonna get a bore job right soon!