Fireing during battle

[Tyler Underwood]

My comrades and I have been discussing lately how battalions would fire during battle. Would they would fire by battalion, by company, by file or independant. To me it would make sense for each company as they came into line that they would fire by file, then independantly. Why else could they fire three rounds a min. We have also taken into consideration that company and battalion commanders could keep better control of their men by controling their rate of fire. I dont know about anyone else but it might be a little unnerving for me as a private in the ranks to fire by battalion and then having a enemy advancing at you and you now have a unloaded rifle. You can read accounts of soldiers discribing "The rattle of musketry" this sounds like independant firing to me. Allthough it could very well be many different companies fireing volleys. There are also accounts of the men loading rifles and passing them foward for someone else to fire. This can only be done if you fire independantly. Anyways I would just like to get some more input on the subject. Thanks

[Possum Skinner]

Re: Fireing during battle

Well, I have not read much that specifies the type of firing from first person acounts, but the following is from Hardee's manual...

67. The fire by file being that which is most frequently used against an enemy, it is highly important that it be rendered perfectly familiar to the troops. The instructor will, therefore, give it almost exclusive preference, and labor to cause the men to aim with care, and always, if possible, at some particular object. As it is of the utmost importance that the men should aim with precision in battle, this principle will be rigidly enforced in the exercises for the purposes of instruction.

I think, remembering that much of what we do is based on practical theory and what evidence we can find, that battalion firings would probably depend a great deal upon what manual the troops were trained under, what period in the war, what weapon they had, and the practicality of the manual to be used in battle.

Gilham's manual was more designed as an intimidating heavy infantry manual that was originally designed for smoothbore, where accuracy was second to amount of lead thrown down field.

Fire by file would have been an extremely effective manner of putting a lot of lead down range and keeping the fire constant. The company immediately goes to independent fire after fire by file. We rarely if ever get to witness the true nature of fire by file as reenactors because of the small size of our companies. By the time a 50 to 100 man company got to the end, the first men would have already been loaded and firing again. There would be no pause in firing.

This topic was covered once on the old forum. As I recall, the general concensus at the time was that fire by file was certainly the most practical method. Today's battalion commanders of a reenacting battalion don't have to worry about actual casualties, and it is "impressive" to show that they have drilled their troops in all the firings. Reenactors love to hear that single "boom" created by a well trained company firing a company volley. I think that firing by company is overdone. Firing by battalion would indeed leave everyone unloaded for what would be an eternity in battle.

Plus, as I stated earlier, fire by file with a 20 man company is usually not as practical with a 20 man company of reenactors. Many men can't load and fire fast enough to pull it off well.

That is my opinion, with a little documentation.

[hendrickms24]

Re: Fireing during battle

Plus, as I stated earlier, fire by file with a 20 man company is usually not as practical with a 20 man company of reenactors. Many men can't load and fire fast enough to pull it off well.
That is my opinion, with a little documentation.

Why would a company of 20 men firing by file not be practical? They are throwing out more lead then a company firing by command. Also the reenactor is fire allots faster then a soldier that has to ram a mini ball down the barrel. I never live fired a rifled musket before but I have fired a 1777 Charleville Musket and after the second round I had to really work at ramming the musket balls down.

[Possum Skinner]

Re: Fireing during battle

Maybe practical wasn't the best choice of words.

The point is, by the time the time the last pair of file partners has fired. 90% of the time, the first files haven't reloaded. So there is a pause of a few seconds. In a twenty man company, that is only ten files. Of course you go to independent fire after that. My point was not that we shouldn't do fire by file, as it seems you think I have intimated. My point was that you don't get the feel of a REAL fire by file, by a full sized company.

Fire by file would be a continuous fire with no pauses, as the first files would already be loaded and firing independently before the end of the company finished firing by file.

Many reenactment companies also fire too fast when they fire by file. They need to be trained to maintain a true rate of fire that they would use when actually aiming at target rather than just firing. That goes for all sides of the hobby.

[Silas]

You could look in the school of the battalion

Here's the link to an online Hardee's School of the Battalion

Here's some of the text from said school:

ARTICLE THIRD.

Loading at will, and the Firings.

31.The colonel will next cause to be executed loading at will, by the commands prescribed in the school of the company No. 45; the officers and sergeants in the ranks will half face to the right with the men at the eighth time of loading, and will face to the front when the men next to them come to a shoulder.

32.The colonel will cause to be executed the fire by company, the fire by wing, the fire by bat*talion, the fire by file, and the fire by rank, by the commands to be herein indicated.

33.The fire by company and the fire by file will always be direct; the fire by battalion, the fire by wing, and the fire by rank, may be either direct or oblique.

34. When the fire ought to be oblique, the colonel will give, at every round, the caution right (or left) oblique, between the commands ready and aim.

35. The fire by company will be executed alternately by the right and left companies of each division, as if the division were alone. The right company will fire first; the captain of the left will not give his first command till he shall see one or two pieces at a ready in the right company; the captain of the latter, after the first discharge, will observe the same rule in respect to the left com*pany; and the fire will thus be continue alternately.

36 The colonel will observe the same rule in the firing by wing.

37.The fire by file will commence in all the companies at once, and will be executed as has been prescribed in the school of the company No 55 and following. The fire by rank will be executed by each rank alternately, as has been prescribed-in the school of the company No. 58 and following.

38. The color-guard will not fire, but reserve itself for the defence of the color.

The fire by company.

39. The colonel, wishing the fire by company to be executed, will command:

1. Fire by company. 2. Commence firing.

40. At the first command, the captains and covering sergeants will take the positions indi*cated in the school of the company 49.

41. The color and its guard will step back at the same time, so as to bring the front rank of the guard in a line with the rear rank of the battalion. This rule is general for all the different filings.

42. At the second command, the odd numbered companies will commence to fire; their captains will each give the commands prescribed in the school of the company No. 50, observing to precede the command company by that of first, third, fifth, or seventh, according to the number of each.

43. The captains of the even numbered compa*nies will give, in their turn, the same commands, observing to precede them by the number of their respective companies.

44. In order that the odd numbered companies may not all fire at once, their captains will ob*serve, but only for the first discharge, to give the command fire one after another; thus, the captain of the third company will not give the command fire until be has heard the fire of the first com*pany; the captain of the fifth will observe the same rule with respect to the third, and the cap*tain of the seventh the same rule with respect to the fifth.

45. The colonel will cause the fire to cease by the sound to cease firing; at this sound, the men will execute what is prescribed in the school of the company No. 63; at the sound, for officers to take their places after firing, the captains, covering sergeants, and color-guard, will promptly resume their places in line of battle: this rule is general for all the firings.

The fire by wing.

46. When the colonel shall wish this fire to be executed, he will command:

1. Fire by wing. 2. Right wing. 3. READY. 4. Aim. 5. FIRE. 6. LOAD.

47. The colonel will cause the wings to fire al*ternately, and he will recommence the fire by the commands, 1. Right wing; 2. Aim; 3. FIRE; 4. LOAD. 1. Left wing; 2. Aim; 3. FIRE; 4. LOAD; in conforming to what is prescribed No. 35.

The fire by battalion.

48. The colonel will cause this fire to be executed by the commands last prescribed, substituting for the first two, 1. Fire by battalion; 2. Battalion.

The fire by file.

49. To cause this to be executed, the colonel will command:

1. Fire by rank. 2. Battalion. 3. READY. 4. Commence firing.

50. At the fourth command, the fire will commence on the right of each company, as prescribed in the school of the company No. 57. The colonel may, if he thinks proper, cause the fire to com*mence on the right of each platoon.

The fire by rank.

51. To cause this fire to be executed, the colonel will command:

1.Fire by rank. 2. Battalion. 3. READY. 4. Rear rank. 5. AIM. 6. FIRE. 7. LOAD.

52. This fire will be executed as has been ex*plained in the school of the company No. 59, in following the progression prescribed for the two ranks which should fire alternately.

To fire by the rear rank.

53. When the colonel shall wish the battalion to fire to the rear, he will command:

1. Face by the rear rank. 2. Battalion. 3. About-FACE

54. At the first command, the captains, covering sergeants, and file closers will execute what has been prescribed in the school of the company No.69; the color-bearer will pass into the rear rank, and for this purpose, the corporal of his file will step before the corporal next on his right to let the color-bearer pass, and will then take his place in the front rank; the lieutenant colonel, adjutant, major, sergeant major, and the music will place themselves before the front rank, and face to the rear, each opposite his place in the line of battle, the first two passing around the right, and the others around the left of the battalion.

55. At the third command, the battalion will face about; the captains and covering sergeants observing what is prescribed in the School of the company No. 70.

56. The battalion facing thus by the rear rank, the colonel will cause it to execute the different fires by the same commands as if it were faced by the front rank.

57. The right and left wings will retain the same designations, although faced about; the companies also will preserve their former designations, as first, second, third, &e.

58. The fire by file will commence on the left of each company, now become the right.

59. The fire by rank will commence by the front rank, now become the rear rank. This rank will preserve its denomination.

60. The captains, covering sergeants, and color-guard will, at the first command given by the colonel, take the places prescribed for them in the fires, with the front rank leading.

61. The colonel, after firing to the rear, wishing to face the battalion to its proper front, will com*mand:

1. Face by the front rank. 2. Battalion. 3. About-FACE.

62. At these commands, the battalion will re*turn to its proper front by the means prescribed Nos. 54 and 55.

63. The fire by file being that most used in war, the colonel will give it the preference in the preparatory exercises, in order that the battalion may be brought to execute it with the greatest possible regularity.

64. When the colonel may wish to give some relaxation to the battalion, without breaking the ranks, he will execute what has been prescribed in the school of the company Nos. 37 and 38 or

Nos. 39 and 40.

65. When the colonel shall wish to cause arms to be stacked, he will bring the battalion to ordered arms, and then command:

1.Stack-ARMS. 2. Break ranks. 3. MARCH.

66. The colonel wishing the men to return to the ranks, willcause attention to be sounded, at which the battalion will re-form behind the stacks of arms. The sound being finished, the colonel after causing the stacks to be broken, will com*mand.

Battalion.

67. At this command, the men will fix their attention, and remain immovable.

Keep the discussion away from idle conjecture and focus on the manuals. It's surprising how much information can be found in those little books.

Another suggestion is that you review Digest of U.S. Tactics from Wm. Steffen. It's a great little book with much practical information.

[markj]

Re: Fireing during battle

Greetings,

How about some "practical information?" I found this just a couple of months ago when I was doing some research at the National Archives:

"[The 10th Indiana] fought in line of battle [with fixed bayonets at the Battle of Mill Springs, Kentucky on January 19th, 1862]. The firing commenced by a volley, we fired by file afterwards. About half an hour after the commencement of the firing Col. [William C.] Kise ordered us to fire left oblique and I heard orders given to several companies to fire right oblique and we fired this way until the order was given to fall back...."

(Statement of Captain William B. Carroll, Company E, 10th Indiana Volunteer Infantry, 18 April 1862. Court-Martial Proceedings of Colonel William B. Kise, Case File O.O. 1849, NARA RG 153).

What's interesting is that other descriptions of the above event indicate that the rate of fire was surprisingly slow--one man said he fired only "eight rounds" during the 30-45 minutes the 10th IVI single-handedly held off several Confederate regiments in the opening stages of the Mill Springs fight. The 10th IVI, however, was eventually forced to fall back to avoid being flanked as well as due to its ammunition running low.

Another interesting point illustrated above is that oblique fire often seems to have been performed by one or more companies on a wing rather than by an entire battalion. I've seen this practice mentioned in the Official Records as well.

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[major]

Re: Fireing during battle

Post deleted.

Let's keep this about history. Nobody really cares what happened at a reenactment once.

John Stillwagon
Moderator.

[markj]

Re: Firing during battle

This brings up some interesting points. To wit:

1. Units apparently spent more time jockeying for a position to fire than actually firing. Terrain and climate played an important part in how firing was conducted. The opening stages of the Mill Springs fight were conducted in twilight (around 7 a.m. in mid-January) and in overcast, rainy weather. Reports indicate the 10th IVI wasn't able to see and open up on the oncoming Confederates until they were within 300 yards; Colonel William C. Kise initially wasn't aware of a large body of CS troops on his left due to their being hidden by rolling terrain.

2. Fire discipline was a constant preoccupation. If troops carried 40-60 rounds on their persons, they would have easily used up their allotment within 20-30 minutes at a steady rate of 2 rounds/minute. This was an invitation to disaster and seems to be what happened at the Mill Springs fight. The 10th IVI used up nearly all of its available rounds during its 30+ minute stand and was forced to fall back, apparently in some confusion, a considerable distance to the rear in order to obtain more ammunition. I should add that the Federals were initially surprised by Crittenden's/Zollicoffer's preemptive attack and it's entirely possible that some Hoosiers hastily deployed forward did not go into action with full cartridge boxes.

3. According to one account by a Federal officer mentioned in an 1863 edition of the "United States Army and Navy Journal," a captured Confederate told him that "we never go into action with more than forty rounds and rarely fire more than ten."

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Firing during battle

Hallo Kameraden!

Please keep this discussion "serious and documentable."

1. Manuals, for "theory" and the "Book."
2. Actual tactical application and field usage during the Civil War (Primary and Secondary Source material).

While modern events might can sometimes contribute to the analysis and discussion- as a Moderator I do not want to see things slide down the Farb/Mainstream Path.

Thank you all for your cooperation.

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt
Moderator

[justthemiller]

Re: Firing during battle

Hello,

There are a couple of interesting accounts about the firings during a battle. Genl. Hazen sent out a couple of circulars prior to what was to be the Atlanta campaign in Late April and Early May, 1864. In them he speaks of what is to be done in a battle. The 1st one was dated April 26, 1864, and is written like this;
"Hereafter at target-practice the system furnished and prescribed by the War Department will be strictly enforced. The gerneral commanding the brigade was much annoyed this morning to notice that with many regiments the practice was permitted to run into a meaningless fusilade, and was surprised that officers who had been in service long should have learned so little of some portion of their duties. The book of Practice has often been furnished the troops of this command, but, judging from this morning's exercises, has probably never received the entire command. One will be given to each two battalions, and will be left with the odd numbered one.
Colonels will at once attend to the making of targets, rests, etc., and make every preparation necessary to carry out the system. No firing will be practised until further orders from these headquarters, but prepartations leading to it will be rigorously observed. Colonels will in person superintend thses instructions."

Later, on May 5th and while his brigade was in the field, he issued another order concerning how battalions shall fire in battle. It talks about other items but the battalion firings are addressed this way;

"In action it is directed that volley-firing be that habitually employed either by wing, rank, or battalion; and in order to be perfectly prepared to execute these fires correctly, battalion commanders will exercise their commands in firing without cartridges at least once a day until further orders."

So, in conclusion and adding on to what Mark had said previously, discipline had a lot to do with how a battalion conducted it fires during an action. Hazen was very concerned with one, the discipline of the firings and two, the accuracy of the firings. Basically, firing by individuals at a body of troops is like a finger poking you many times whereas a well-disciplined & accurate volley is like a fist punching you. It would not surprise me if other brigade commanders concerned themselves with the same things.

[JACKSONVC]

Re: Fireing during battle

Pards,
I remembered something out of Casey's, School of the soldier, in the instruction of firing by files, soldiers were taught as follows and I quote:

"282. The fire by file will be executed by the two ranks, the files of which will fire successively, and without regulating on each other, except for the first fire."

283. The instructor will command:

1. Fire by file. 2. Squad 3. Ready 4. COMMENCE FIRING.

284. At the third command, the two ranks will take the position prescribed in the direct fire.
285. At the fourth command, the file on the right will aim and fire; the rear-rank man in aiming will take position indicated No. 183.
286. The men of this file will load their pieces briskly and fire a second time; reload and fire again, and so on in continuation.
287. The second file will aim, at the instant the first file brings down pieces to reload, and will conform in all respects to that which has just been prescribed for the first file.
288. After the first fire, the front and rear rank men will not be required to fire at the same time.
289. Each man, after reloading, will return to the position of ready and continue the fire."

Looking at Casey's, the private soldier was instructed that after the first firing, he was to commence independant fire. There is however no indication of how rapidly he was expected to load and fire his weapon save for one vague mention of "briskly" reloading. So, armed with only a modest amount of ammuntion, one tends to "save" shooting everything off at once. I can see that firing by files would lend to conserving ammuntion, and for that matter improve the accuracy of fire. The amount of smoke put out by a volley fire as compared to fire by file means that the shooters can see their targets while keeping up a continous fire.

[major]

Re: Independent Fireing during battle is more accurate

I can see that firing by files would lend to conserving ammuntion, and for that matter improve the accuracy of fire.

Vince
I think you are right that firing by volley would reduce accuracy. When firing independently you only pull the trigger when you are on target. When you volley fire you fire on command weather or not you are on target. In the N-SSA we sometimes fire by volley for certain events and my accuracy goes way down. I can fire more accurately if I can take my time and fire when I am sure I am holding on target. Just my 2 cents worth.
Terry

[JACKSONVC]

Re: Fireing during battle

Terry,
Kinda makes one rethink the volume of fire being put out by a regiment during a battle. If guys are loading and firing at their own pace, instead of the 3 rounds per minute standard, they may only be firing one round per minute. So the concept of firing as a massed unit as fast as you can may very well be a reenactorism. Well aimed and accurate fire causes casualties, volley fire is pot luck at best. I know that when I aim a shot, I normally hit something, the times I have participated in Volleys our hit per shot ratio is less than desireable.

[MassVOL]

Re: Fireing during battle

So the concept of firing as a massed unit as fast as you can may very well be a reenactorism. Well aimed and accurate fire causes casualties, volley fire is pot luck at best.

In my opinion the use of Volley Fire possesses shock value that fire by file does not provide. It demonstrates a well-disciplined unit as well as allows the officer better control of his units. The soldiers are listening for his voice and following his direction while providing more flexibility of maneuver and lets everyone know exactly who is in charge.


p.s. There is a section in "The Crucible of Battle" (I believe) where a regimental commander spoke of firing by rank to retain the value of volley fire but insure that half the line still had loaded weapons incase of a charge or other event.

[Yellowhammer]

Re: Fireing during battle

"Gilham's manual was more designed as an intimidating heavy infantry manual that was originally designed for smoothbore, where accuracy was second to amount of lead thrown down field."

That statement is incorrect. "Gilham's Tactics" includes manual of arms for both musket and rifle, skirmish (or light infantry) drill, and complete descriptions of current ordnance.

For example, "41. Small arms now in use; 42. The smooth bore musket; 43. The rifled musket - The cylindro-conical baIl; 44. The "altered musket"; 45. The rifle (Minie); 46. Rifled carbines, and breech-loading rifles;"

From Article III. to Article XI., inclusive, will be found the tactical portion of the work; it embraces very full instructions for every kind of Infantry troops