Illinois jacket question

[billmatt04]

Re: Illinois jacket question

Thought of another question. What about buttons on the cuffs? None of the 104th pics I have show the cuffs, so it's impossible for me to tell if they had buttons on them. What is the general consensus concerning the cufss? Were they scalloped cuffs? Did they have 2, 1, or no buttons? The coat I just acquired has no buttons and is not scalloped, but I might be able to work with that if it is not right.

Matt Cassady
Pvt. 104th Illinois Vol. Inf.

[John of the Skulkers Mess]

Re: Illinois jacket

Love to see those 104th jacket pics. Maybe Mr. Keating could scan and post some of those on the Web site...

????


With fingers crossed,
John Pillers

[billmatt04]

Re: Illinois jacket

Love to see those 104th jacket pics. Maybe Mr. Keating could scan and post some of those on the Web site...

????


With fingers crossed,
John Pillers

Well, I can ask him if he has any. I am not sure, because he was the first person I asked. I'll see what I can do.

Matt Cassady

[John of the Skulkers Mess]

Re: ah

Well, I can ask him if he has any. I am not sure, because he was the first person I asked. I'll see what I can do.

Matt Cassady

Gotcha.

I had traded a couple messages with him a long while back. I thought he told me that the 104th regimental history (maybe there's more than 1?) had been reprinted.

So, I thought he could be bribed into scanning and posting. :)


Glad to see another jacket fan,
John Pillers

[billmatt04]

Re: Illinois jacket question

The 104th regimental history has been reprinted (I have a copy myself) but the scans would be unclear because the book was reprinted by scanning the original pages and then printing them. Still, the pics do show men wearing jackets with epaulets. Unfortunately, they do not show cuffs or go below the waist. I guess we'll just have to keep working. Maybe i can convince him to post something on here.

Matt Cassady

[Robert Braun]

Re: Illinois jacket question

Am I not correct in stating that not all New York regiments were initially clothed by New York State? The Union Defense Committee of New York was involved in initial procurement for several regiments. I believe both the Mozart Regiment and the Garibaldi Guard serve as examples do they not?

I remain, as always,

John

John Sarver
Cin. O.

Mr. Sarver,

You are correct--- not all New York Infantry Regiments received the state issue, but most did. The 39th New York (G. G.) was at least partially clothed in non-regulation attire, however this initial issue soon gave way to conventional military clothing. The uniform of the 40th New York is well-documented in its regimental history, and N. Y. Jackets eventually found their way into the clothing issue.

My study of N. Y. uniforms with Mr. Michael McAfee many years ago revealed that New York regiments could recieve either the dress coat or the jacket as their "dress" garment. Our cursory, non-scientific review seemed to indicate that about every other, or every third N. Y. regiment received the state jacket as its initial issue.

Your points regarding N. Y. clothing suppliers filling orders for other states is well founded. Wisconsin ordered a quantity of caps and jackets "in the 7th Regiment pattern" for a number of its units-- the black cloth "patches" on the cuffs and epaulettes modified slightly to make them distinct from those adopted and worn by the NYSM. When the state switched from gray to blue, the Adjutant General let a contract for trousers and what I call the "Wisconsin blouse" to-- Brooks Brothers, of New York City.

Regards,

Bob

[Rmhisteach]

Re: Illinois jacket question

Matthew,

a number of years ago I got an Il state coat from a unit called the 41st Illinois the maker was a man by the name of Randy Jackson. Their unit was entirely outfitted with these state coats. I think he still lives in Charleston, IL.

[Brian Baird]

Re: Illinois jacket question

Matthew,

a number of years ago I got an Il state coat from a unit called the 41st Illinois the maker was a man by the name of Randy Jackson. Their unit was entirely outfitted with these state coats. I think he still lives in Charleston, IL.

The jackets wore by the 41st were first made by New Columbia, ie Joe Covias. The story I heard was they were based on a jacket that Joe had found somewhere in southern Illinois. Randy started making up these same jackets after Joe went out of business. But no one else knows anything about the jacket it was copied from.
Brian Baird

[weed]

Re: Illinois jacket question

When making asumptions on state issued Illinois shell jackets, there seems to be NO standard one. I had 2 great great ancestors in Illinois units (42 Illinois Vol. Infantry and the 46th Illinois Volunteer infantry)

So I started a study on Illinois state issued shell jackets to see what my great great relatives where origginally issued. (I was added in thisw by the late Richard Tibbles) I have 6 ID images of Illinois soldiers wearing "Illinois state issued shell jackets" All 6 jackets are different! Fortunately, I was able to obtain an image of a soldier not only in great greatgrandfather's regiment, but the SAME company (Co. C, 46th Illinois) His shell jacket has a 9 button front, epaulettes and a slash pocket on the upper right of the coat and 2 slash pockets on both sides near the bottom. in another image, the soldier has an 8 button front no epaulettes and two pockets. An Illinois solder from Rockford was issued a 10 button coat (small buttons) no epaulettes, belt loops or pockets. An Illinois soldier from Springfield was issued a 9 button jacket with no epaulettes, belt loops, or pockets. A soldger in the 60th Illinois was issued a jacket with a 12 button front (small buttons) epaulettes, belt loops and slash pockets on both sides near the bottom.

So in my estimation, there seems to be a great variety in the "Illinois State Issued Shell Jacket.

John M. Wedeward
33rd Wisconsin Vol's.

[John of the Skulkers Mess]

Re: Illinois jacket

"His shell jacket has a 9 button front, epaulettes and a slash pocket on the upper right of the coat and 2 slash pockets on both sides near the bottom"

Sounds like an old roundabout...

Neat stuff there John W.!

You don't happen to keep a stash of Illinois ID'd images (or photo copies) do you?

John Pillers

:D

[weed]

Re: Illinois jacket question

basically YES

To post, all I did was go and look at the original images in my collection.

Weed

[John of the Skulkers Mess]

perhaps?

You don't happen to have any copies of images of soldiers belonging to 7th through 12th inf. (and/or 1st Ill. Cav.) wearing what Todd/Arliskas calls the 'Illinois brigade uniform' do you?

It was gray with 7 (?) buttons with 'fancy' cuff trim.

Something like this:
http://www.geocities.com/jp8thill/bullard.jpg


Or any ID'd gray jacket imagess?
Or any hickory/striped clothing?
Aw shoot, or any 'NYS militia' style jackets?

I think I'm done... ;-)

Thanks,
John Pillers

P.S.
I only remember seeing one 42nd Ill. pic and that was a group shot in Military Images...

[weed]

Re: Illinois jacket question

I have never heard of the Illinois brigade uniform. Did not even know the grey Illinois unforms existed.

You should see the images I have of the 46th when they were occupying New Orleans at the end of the war. They had too much money and time on their hands. They are all wearing infantry jackets with more trim (sky blue twill tape) than a Confederate general on both front sides and both sleeves of their jackets, Bizzare coats. They must of gotten ahold of the ladies that made the "Tiger Zouave" uniforms at the start of the war!

They were not going home in your pain everyday sack coat!!!

Now, if I only had my great grandfather's! :confused_

J Wedeward
33d Wisconsin

[rogue]

Re: Illinois jacket question

[Weed,
Dick Tibbals and Roy Mantle once had a killer Illinois image showing a fellow in a gray shell jacket. I have not been able to find where it went. I attach some Illinois jackets you and others may enjoy seeing.
1. Two young men from Tazewell County. Armed with 1816 conversions and the odd pistol. Eight or nine buttons, stand up collar and shoulder straps.
2. Sgt. Samuel Sines Co. B, 25th Illinois. 1842 musket, longer than usual jacket. Exterior pocket on the left (image reversed). Puffy forage cap and early belt with leather loop.
3. Unidentified soldier from Princeton, Illinois. Seems something is bothering his tummy?
4. James T. Reed, Kappa, Illinois, Co. G, 17th Illinois. Died of wounds suffered at Shiloh Stand up collar of jacket obscured by an incredible cravat.
5. Finally perhaps the ultimate Illinois shell jacket, and uniform for that matter. CDV with a Belvidere, Illinois backmark and dated "1861" in pencil. Illinois Navy?
If these images did not come out in the order I listed them I am pretty sure you can figure out whom is whom.
Steve Sullivan
46th Illinois
Co. Mil. Hist.

[weed]

Re: Illinois jacket question

Steve:

Great images. Dick did help me a lot on my research. I will post the images I have of "early" Illinois soldiers.

Unfortunately, I do not have a image of pvt John Wedeward, Co. A, 42nd Illinois Volunteer Infantry. :(

Somehow over the years, private Wedeward was transfered to a Wisconsin unit (33d). I still cannot figure out how this happened.

Private John Wedeward (my great greatuncle) was wounded in the leg at Chichamaugua and eventually discharged for disability. He lived in Ozakee County (near Milwaukee) and lived into his 80's.

This John Wedeward has still not been mustered out yet, after over 32 years of service! :sarcastic

Sgt John Wedeward
33d Wisconsin Vol Infantry
Co Mil Historians