Yank infantry with pistols

[rebyank]

Pards, here is small bit of evidence of pistols in the hands of yankee infantry. This is an account dated feb 10 1862, the unit is the 13th Wis infantry, company G. (I had 2 relatives in company G 13th WIS, :confused_ ) This is also quite amusing

"One of the privates from Company G managed to get in a scrape. It seems he went on a bit of a “spree” and got into a quarrel. The reporter for the Gazette advises, “”being a soldier, he drew his revolver and blazed away; but owing to the unsteadiness of his nerves, caused very possibly by that which had made him quarrelsome, he missed the man at whom he shot, but as there was a crowd it was bound to hit somebody, which it accordingly did. But very fortunately for both the shooter and the shootee, the man had a large silver watch in his pocket which received the contents of the pistol, and no other harm was done.”

Enjoy,

[GrumpyDave]

Re: Yank infantry with pistols

Great bit of information. The sad thing is somebody will take the "exception" and make it the "rule" on some field somewhere.:wink_smil

[cprljohnivey]

Re: Yank infantry with pistols

I disagree that this is evidence of Pistols in the ranks.

Based on the above post, it is inconclusive if the soldier in question was "on duty" or not. Also, it does not explain how he came to be with a pistol. Did he borrow it from an officer for protection when getting a pass to go to town one evening? Did he steal the weapon. Chances are it was not issued. Also, is this first hand information or did the origional author hear about the situation from a friend.

$.02 worth!

Brad Ireland

[John of the Skulkers Mess]

Re: 13th Wis.

Now I'm curious as to where the 13th Wis. was at this time. In camp? Somewhere in middle Tennessee or thereabouts?



John Pillers

[markj]

Re: Yank infantry with pistols

Greetings,

Hard to say but official policy frowned on enlisted men carrying pistols. This went for the both the Federal and Confederate armies. Indeed, a major reason why pistols and concealed weapons were considered trouble was due to the possibility of their being used by troops and

For example, a Fall 1862 order from Braxton Bragg (AoT) officially prohibited wearing of pistols by enlisted men, unless specifically authorized to do so, and requiring they turn in their arms to their friendly neighborhood Ordnance Sergeants. Troops doing so would, in turn, be financially compensated for their arms according to a fixed schedule.

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[ScottCross]

Re: Yank infantry with pistols

Something to take into consideration about the above quote is the fact that the 13th Wisconsin was a GREEN regiment, only a few months old. It was not uncommon for new recruits to pack off to war with a variety of pistols, bowie knives, daggers, and etc. and there is a lot of evidence for this in letters and other personal accounts. Most importantly, these weapons usually were pitched after the first serious march (which the 13th Wisconsin got shortly after this incident when they marched from Fort Leavenworth Kansas to Fort Scott and then Fort Smith Arkansas in February 1862. Pistols in the ranks of infantry units later in the war are almost unheard of. Also, a search of the roster for Company G, shows no one who was sentenced for this alleged incident.

[Yellowhammer]

Re: Yank infantry with pistols

To amplify to Scott and Brad's excellent posts, I would add that "in camp" does not equal "in the ranks." A soldier in a new regiment having a pistol in camp shouldn't really be news to anyone.

If you are looking for documentation for infantry carrying pistols "in the ranks," one need look no further than "Company Aytch." In that "memoir," Watkins describes the men of his regiment casting aside pistols, bowie knives and other encumberances on their difficult march to Romney, VA (now WV.)

In that case again, rookie soldiers had side arms they brought from home but very quickly removed them from their personal equipage.

[markj]

Re: Yank infantry with pistols

Again, I think a major concern of commanders about enlisted men carrying pistols was the very real possibility of extra-curricular pistol-play. Then, as now, alcohol and firearms were a volatile combination and, in fact, well before the war many localities passed laws against concealed weapons (the South, surprisingly enough, was a leader in this area) or firing within town limits (remember the famous sign that was posted on Cemetery Ridge at Gettysburg?).

Period newspapers are full of incidents describing shootings and stabbings, most of which involved alcohol, between soldiers or involving soldiers and citizens. In the case of Indiana, a direct correlation can be drawn between the rise in violent crime in the spring of 1864, in such places as Indianapolis, and the arrival of returning veteran regiments for their reenlistment furloughs. All one has to do is crack open the "Indianapolis Daily Journal" beginning around January 1864.

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[rebyank]

Re: Yank infantry with pistols

Just for the record, This incident took place in camp in Kansas. This was after the 13th had marched from Wisconsin to Kansas in the winter.

Just as a side note, I have a small remington pocket pistol that my relative caried with him in the 13th Wis.

I did not mean to say with my first post that the govt issued pistols, only that not everybody thowed em away after the first march, as this incident shows.

[markj]

Re: Yank infantry with pistols

Well, the following might lend some support to your thesis:

Reminisce of Sgt Fred. Nussbaum, Co. C, 107th (5th German) Ohio Volunteer Infantry, extracted from: Camps and Campaigns of the 107th Regiment [“5th German”] Ohio Volunteer Infantry, From August, 1862 to July, 1865, Jacob Smith, Company D, 107th Ohio Volunteer Infantry, (reprint of c.1910 edition, Navarre, OH: Indian River Graphics, 2000. ISBN: 0-9704760-0-0. Based on a wartime diary (extensively rewritten several years afterward), p. 226-227.

[At Gettysburg, on July 2nd, 1863, Comrade Nussbaum, (Corporal at Gettysburg, later Sergeant, Frederick Nussbaum) of Co. C states that] We moved in some disorder to the rear of Weidrick’s Battery, when I noticed the color-bearer of the Eighth Louisiana Tigers waving his flag near the Battery, and the color-guards massing around on both sides of him. I called the attention of Adjutant [Peter F.] Young to this demonstration, and there being about seven of us we at once, by command of the Adjutant, fired a volley and advanced toward them scattering the color-guards in every direction. The color-bearer being severely wounded, dropped on one knee holding to his flag with such a firm grip, that Adjutant Young who was trying to wrench it from him could not do it. The color-bearer had a large Navy revolver in his right hand. I saw him pull the trigger and shoot the Adjutant through the shoulder blade; the Adjutant in turn planted his sabre in the color-bearer’s breast. The color-bearer held on to the flag and sabre with a firm grip until he dropped over dead, never loosening his grasp until he drew his last breath.
We made a quick examination of the color-bearer’s body and found seven bullet holes through him; we also examined the contents of his canteen which, being nearly full, contained whisky and gun powder, and which we judged accounted for his desperate bravery. I took his knapsack which was a very neat one made of leather with a goat-skin cover, and which contained a single biscuit later baked being yet warm; being minus my own knapsack, I carried it awhile, but the Comrades made so much fun of me that I threw it away for which act I have been sorry ever since.

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[RyanBWeddle]

Re: Yank infantry with pistols

It's quite well known though that various color-guards and color-bearers were armed "non-regulation" quite a bit. Various units bought repeating rifles, revolvers, etc. See attached pic of the 7th ILL Veteran Vols. color guard. And if you flip through the Blue Acorn Press Echoes of Battle books you see similar photos of well armed colorguards.

So basically, I think that the various references to infantrymen with side arms are the exception to the rule. They occur, but should not be view as commonplace...

[Kevin O'Beirne]

Re: Yank infantry with pistols

Below is a paragraph from an article I wrote several years ago about St. Patrick's Day in the Eastern Federal armies. The source for this is a letter from Sergeant George Tipping of 155th New York; the letter is on file at the Buffalo and Erie County Historical Society, Buffalo, NY:

Later in the evening, the whiskey no doubt had taken its effect when a pistol fight erupted in the camp of the 155th New York. Among other incidents of gunplay, young Corporal Michael Casey of Company I, quite inebriated, pulled a cocked pistol on his commander, Captain John Byrne. As reported by another soldier, Byrne “played the coward” and backed down, avoiding an unhappy ending to the matter. Fortunately, no injuries resulted when some drunks actually fired pistols at their compatriots.

It's important to note that this incident occured in a static camp in a non-combat situation near Suffolk VA in a regiment that was still fairly new to the service. The excerpt aptly shows why pistols, alcohol, and enlisted men were a volatile mix.

[markj]

Re: Yank infantry with pistols

The attached journal article (in Adobe pdf) does not, per se, deal with the issue of enlisted troops carrying pistols. However, some of you might find it interesting nonetheless since it discusses the arming of police and use of concealed weapons in antebellum, wartime, and postbellum New Orleans.

Enjoy,

Mark Jaeger

[10TnVI]

Re: Yank infantry with pistols

To add fuel to the fire-a citation from a period source-
From the book "With Sherman to the Sea" the CW letters, diaries and reminences of Theodore F. Upson.
Upson was serving in the 100th Ind., the place is West Tennessee, his unit was doing guard along the M&C RR.

From a letter dated March 16, 1863 discussing incidents during a foraging patrol when he and two others came upon a Rebel patrol of equal size.
"He (Lowrie) jumped behind a tree and shot one of them..He threw down his gun, snatched his revolver out of his blouse, and shot another"
Later in the same letter he further adds "Lowrie shot him four times with a Sharps pistol."

And for you sharpshooter fans out there, in another paragraph, when discussing events during a scout into N. Mississippi he mentions they seized-"Also a quantity of arms.. Amoung the rest was a fine sharpshotter rifle made in England with telescope sight. It has been given to John Bean of our company who aspires to be a sharpshooter"

[ScottCross]

Re: Yank infantry with pistols

Mat,

Something to keep in mind about Great-great-grandpa's pocket revolver is that many such items were also sent home, rather than being thrown away. Just because the pistol survived, does not mean that he carried it all through the war. Souvenirs and excess personal items were frequently shipped back home due to their value.