early war scabbard with rivets added?

[rebyank]

Pards,
I won a springfield bayonet and scabbard off of ebay and recieved it yesterday. The scabbard is a very peculier thing. It looks like it was originally a sewn scabbard with the buff dyed black frog. It appears that two rivets were added at some point, I think by the military, either to add stenght, or to perhaps make them look like the newer scabbards. It has been mated to a 61 springfield bayonet for a long time, and you could see the "Farmer tan" rust where the blade had been in the scabbard. :tounge_sm

Any ideas whatsoever?

sidedrummer@lycos.com

[Yellowhammer]

Re: early war scabbard with rivets added?

Ian,

It is my understanding that Paul Johnson, author of the excellent "Civil War Cartridge Boxes of the Union Infantryman" is currently working on a similar effort regarding scabbards. This has been in the works for a while so hopefully it will be available this fall and I suspect it will tell you all you ever wanted to know about your scabbard.

I'm told he is also working on a book on Federal waist belts while Fred Gaede is working on his much-anticipated volume on Federal cap pouches.

Since all those are in the works right now, it may prove to be an expensive book-buying winter for CW accoutrement buffs!

[10TnVI]

Re: early war scabbard with rivets added?

Perhaps I'm missing something, but it sure looks like a standard 2 rivet scabbard to me, although most of the loop appears to be missing as well as the tip. Is there something I'm not seeing?

[rebyank]

Re: early war scabbard with rivets added?

The loop is rough side out (There is enough left to see it), while the rest of the scabbard is smooth side out. The only scabbards I know that had rough side out loops were the sewn scabbards with a buff loop. Mex war stuff. Granted it could just be an odd two rivet scabbard that had a rough side out loop.

It just looks kinda weird to me,

[Yellowhammer]

Re: early war scabbard with rivets added?

Ian,

In your initial post, you said the loop (not frog) was dyed buff. In your subsequent post, you described it simply as being "rough-out."

A scabbard with a loop made out of blackened buff with rivets added would be an interesting animal. (That's why I referred you to the upcoming Johnson book.) A two-rivet scabbard with a rough-out loop would pretty much be a standard variation of that pattern scabbard. I recently saw a Gaylord marked example that matches that description.

[rebyank]

Re: early war scabbard with rivets added?

I do appologize then if any confusion came about because of this. I was under the impression that rough out loops were originaly buff and then dyed black later. does this mean that this is just an odd version of the 1859 pattern, put togeather with the loop inside out?


I'm more confused now then when I started out!

[Minieball577]

Re: early war scabbard with rivets added?

I do appologize then if any confusion came about because of this. I was under the impression that rough out loops were originaly buff and then dyed black later. does this mean that this is just an odd version of the 1859 pattern, put togeather with the loop inside out?


I'm more confused now then when I started out!

If it were dyed buff leather, you would likely be able to tell by looking at the "inside" of the belt loop, as the redying of Buff leather was typically only for the exterior of accoutrements.

[CJSchumacher]

Re: early war scabbard with rivets added?

I do appologize then if any confusion came about because of this. I was under the impression that rough out loops were originaly buff and then dyed black later. does this mean that this is just an odd version of the 1859 pattern, put togeather with the loop inside out?


I'm more confused now then when I started out!

Ian,

A period finish to leather was waxed flesh, which replicated the look of true buff leather. I've seen many versions of scabbards, cartridge box belts, and even belts made using waxed flesh. As I said, its a finish to the flesh side of leather used to replicate the look of real buff.

I've also seen sword knot's finished using waxed flesh as well. As John said, chances are this is the case with your scabbard.

And yes, dyeing was usually (hate to say always) applied to the outside of leather. Leather was typically piece dyed in this manner vs. vat dyed. The underside usually remains natural.