Bagpipes in the war

[ley74]

Re: Bagpipes in the war

Folks, my virtual ears are bleeding. Can we move along to more important issues?

How about that 4th ID?

[JustRob]

Irish Pipes

Kevin O'Bierne and I have answered this question several times over the years.

The 69th NYSM had a brass band at First Bull Run. They played several "Dan Tucker-ish" songs and the Star Spangled Banner. There are also references to "the songs Davis wrote" (i.e. A Nation Once Again & Battle Eve of the Brigade). There was never a reference to pipes.

The ONLY reference to Uillean (Irish) pipes in the Irish Brigade (69th, 88th, & 63rd NYSV, 29th/28th MA, 116th PA) is at a New Year's Eve party in December of 1861. The piper and his son were civilians hired by a group of officers for the party. They were not heard from again.

In my six years of researching the Irish Brigade, that one civilian piper is the only reference I have ever seen regarding pipes during the war.

[ElizabethClark]

Re: Bagpipes in the war

Mr. Baker wrote: [QUOTE=rebyank]There were many scottish clubs and organisations in chicago before and during the civil war. these clubs probably would have had plenty of people who had and played pipes. (snip) So I think that there is a very good chance that somebody in the 12th Illinois had and played pipes at some point during the war. [/QUOTE]

While it's an interesting thought, from a practical standpoint, probably not.

Get 300 American Scots together. One or two may know the pipes well enough to play without killing anyone. Pipes are not exactly a "sit around the fire and toodle" sort of instrument. They're quirty, quarrelsome, and rather a pain in the tush to learn... more-so in a time when they weren't being mass-produced in Pakistan, and there weren't a lot of piping schools in the States.

It's also important to remember that being of Scots descent doesn't mean you necessarily have a piping tradition. There are entire districts where Highland pipes aren't going to be established. And even the Victorian fervor for the Ye Olde Romantic Highlande Tradition didn't make pipes pervasive.

So, while there may have been one or two who piped, it doesn't necessarily follow that they did so in a military context. And if they did, there's more than likely going to be some recorded mention of it. Until that documentation exists, especially for such a controversial activity, it's best not to assume.

[East_TN_Rebel]

Re: Bagpipes in the war

Folks,

What can I say? My very first post in these forums and I get a reply explosion. This information is very good to find. I appreciate everyones input on this subject. It had been a question that I had pondered for some time, being of Scottish descent as well as Southern descent. I am just happy I have tapped into such a well read group of folks.

Thanks,

[markj]

Re: Bagpipes in the war

Greetings,

Thanks for all the interesting comments. This entire discussion, of course, once again raises the issue as to how much of the ethnic press has been systematically examined. The short answer is, of course, "Not nearly as much as one might hope for." At the time of the Civil War, something like 300 newspapers of all kinds were publishing in Illinois. Of these, it appears that approximately two dozen papers operated in Chicago during the 1860's, with one or more having an Irish/Fenian slant, for example. I doubt more than a handful of these papers have been reviewed in depth--that's why I get a little concerned about making broad generalizations. For my part, I'm primarily interested in ethnic German regiments so it's frustrating to note that relatively little has been extracted and transcribed from the "Dutch" press. Indeed, Indianapolis IN alone had at least two German-language sheets in operation between 1861-65.

Frankly, I was surprised that "Melting Pot Soldiers" didn't bother to discuss the 12th "Scotch" Illinois while mentioning the ill-fated 65th IL. This raises the inevitable question about what else the author either overlooked or ignored in his book.

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[billwatson]

Re: Bagpipes in the war

Erik wrote:

"Some guy, unknown to any member of the unit, just showed up at some pint during the war with pipes and wearing the kilts along with his civilian clothing. So horrible was he apparently that he was run out of camp and never heard from again.."


Hey, how about that? He's still doing it.....


Sorry, couldn't resist.

Bill Watson
Stroudsburg, Pa.

[va-yank]

Re: Bagpipes in the war

Ok, agreed, there are references to Black Watch pipers playing at the Battle of New Orleans, etc etc. Its established that now and again, prior to the British departing for good, a REAL highland regiment in our portion of the continent used their pipes.

Were the pipes were heard among Americans in the intervening years? In some parlor in New York? Probably. At some Scottish Club? Sure. At Bull Run in the summer of 1861 or 1862?

[shubal]

Re: Bagpipes in the war

"The regimental History makes one more reference to Bagpipes. I paraphrase. Some guy, unknown to any member of the unit, just showed up at some pint during the war with pipes and wearing the kilts along with his civilian clothing. So horrible was he apparently that he was run out of camp and never heard from again.."

You know Bill, this does create a precedent for a 'reenactment' of sorts.

Peter Koch

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Bagpipes in the war

Hallo Kameraden!

The "Proscription Acts" were a series of "acts" first passed in 1746 by Lord Chancellor Hardwicke. The one in question is the Disarming Act which imposed severe penalties for not only carrying or possessing arms, but also for
wearing the "plaid," "kilt," or any tartan cloth garment (by males) from August 1747.
Pipes were prohibited as "an instrument of war."
Penalty for the first offense was six months' imprisonment, and "transportation" to the colonial plantations for seven years (later often changed to military service), or banishment and being forbidden to return.
It was renewed for seven years by Parliament a few months before King George II's death in 1760, but fell into desuetude, and finally repealed in 1782.

The Irish, or Uilleann, pipes are hard to play in a band- similar to Woody Allen- a cello player in a marching band in one of his movies having to constantly move his chair forward...

When it comes to pipes in the Civil War, to paraphrase Alistair Cooke, "As with Kent State years later, it was not what happened, but what people convinced themselves must have happened..."

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt
Clan McMillan Mess

[Yellowhammer]

Re: Bagpipes in the war

Can I make a suggestion:

For all you CW reenactors who want to wear kilts and trews and tams and Glengarries, play bagpipes, and wear Brit accoutrements and packs (regardless of whether it's appropriate or not), have I got a unit for you! http://www.brigade.org/

This is the website of the Brigade of the American Revolution. From there, you can find reenactment groups who portray units who, UNLIKE CIVIL WAR UNITS, really did go to battle in kilts, trews, glengarry caps, and playing bagpipes. There's also F&I, War of 1812, or just Highland Games to go to. Hell, you can even come to Alexandria and march in the Scottish Christmas parade!

While I say this as a neighborly jest, PLEASE, this thread is farby as anything I've ever seen. Numerous intelligent people have posted again and again that there weren't any Scottish pipes used during the war so either deal with it, or do another war.

[Justin Runyon]

Re: Bagpipes in the war

Here here John.

Beating a dead horse mess

[markj]

Re: Bagpipes in the war

Greetings,

For whatever it's worth, in case it hasn't already been posted on the previous thread:

CHICAGO DAILY TRIBUNE, January 21, 1862, p. 4, c. 9

Pipers Wanted for the
Scotch Regiment.

Apply personally or by letter at 101 Washington street, Room No. 8
Daniel Cameron, Colonel Commanding.
Parties raising Companies or parts of Companies are requested to apply as above. Every facility will be extended, and liberal inducements offered to parties recruiting in the country. The Scotch Regiment will probably be the last accepted by the Government from Illinois.
****

Yours, &c.,

Mark Jaeger

[markj]

Re: Bagpipes in the war

Greetings,

The last part of this ad is interesting although it doesn't deal, per se, with bagpiping:

MOBILE REGISTER AND ADVERTISER, September 29, 1861, p. 4, c. 4

Home Manufacture

Messrs. J. A. DeOrnellas & Co., South-west corner of Claiborne and Stone streets, manufacturers of Jewelry, &c., are prepared to make any kind of work, such as Military Companies may require, are ready to furnish any emblem that companies may wish to have made to represent their country.
They also manufacture all kinds of CHAINS, such as Gentlemen's Vest Chains, Ladies' Chatelaines, Armlets, Guard Chains, &c. Full setts [sic] of Cameos, Ear-rings and Pins. Also, Etruscan Work, Diamonds set as solitaires or in clusters, Enameled, Engraved, chased or plain; Hair mounted in any style.
Having secured the services of the only Die Cutter in the city, they are prepared to make anything required in that line, from Patterns or Drawings. They have already made the Thistle [badge] for the Mobile Scotch Guard, and are ready to make Stars for Companies, of any material required.
Orders left at Walter Pearce & Co's, corner of Dauphin and Water streets, will be promptly attended to.
****

The "Mobile Scotch Guard[s]" was officially designated Company I, 2nd "Magnolia" Alabama Infantry and served as such in 1861-1862.

http://www.archives.state.al.us/referenc/alamilor/mil_org.html

http://www.archives.state.al.us/referenc/reghist.html

http://www.tarleton.edu/~kjones/localal.html

Yours, &c., &c.,

Mark Jaeger

[hireddutchcutthroat]

Re: Bagpipes in the war

I looked through the websites of a bunch of those revey war websites, and I think they were standing behind the SCA when they handed out authenticity guidlines. Is there such a thing as "hardcore" Revywar?

[Yellowhammer]

Re: Bagpipes in the war

This thread is embarrasing.