Issue shirts and undershirts

[billmatt04]

Gentlemen and ladies,
I used the search option and did not find the answer to my newest query. I was wondering how appropriate it would be for a Federal soldier to wear a civilian shirt underneath a federal issue or contract shirt? I saw a picture in an issue of Civil War Times of Federal troops at Petersburg, I believe, and it appeared to me that I saw a man wearing a checked shirt underneath a domet flannel issue shirt. I also noticed this practice in the film Wicked Spring. As the weather gets cooler I want to figure out a way to keep warm at late season events without lugging more than one blanket (specifically thinking of Franklin here) and utilizing my issue shirt. If anyone knows of images or documentation of this practice please let me know. Thank you very much, I appreciate all the help that I have been previously given on other questions.

Sincerely,
Matthew Cassady
104th Illinois Vol. Inf.

[markj]

Re: Issue shirts and undershirts

Gentlemen and ladies,
I used the search option and did not find the answer to my newest query. I was wondering how appropriate it would be for a Federal soldier to wear a civilian shirt underneath a federal issue or contract shirt? I saw a picture in an issue of Civil War Times of Federal troops at Petersburg, I believe, and it appeared to me that I saw a man wearing a checked shirt underneath a domet flannel issue shirt. I also noticed this practice in the film Wicked Spring. As the weather gets cooler I want to figure out a way to keep warm at late season events without lugging more than one blanket (specifically thinking of Franklin here) and utilizing my issue shirt. If anyone knows of images or documentation of this practice please let me know. Thank you very much, I appreciate all the help that I have been previously given on other questions.

Sincerely,
Matthew Cassady
104th Illinois Vol. Inf.

Hi Matthew,

Take a look at these threads.

http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/search.php?searchid=131290

This topic has been repeatedly discussed (by "yours truly" among others) over the past several months.

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[billmatt04]

Re: Issue shirts and undershirts

I must be missing something, because I didn't really have my question answered by these posts. I'm going to dig around to see if I can find that picture I was referring to. If anyone has any images of men wearing cotton undershirts under their regulation shirts I would love to see them. I'll also look back through those threads again to see if I missed out on a clue or something. Thanks for the help.

Sincerely,
Matthew Cassady
104th Illinois Vol. Inf.

[billmatt04]

Re: Issue shirts and undershirts

I must be missing something, because I didn't really have my question answered by these posts. I'm going to dig around to see if I can find that picture I was referring to. If anyone has any images of men wearing cotton undershirts under their regulation shirts I would love to see them. I'll also look back through those threads again to see if I missed out on a clue or something. Thanks for the help.

Sincerely,
Matthew Cassady
104th Illinois Vol. Inf.

Okay, I found the picture in the December 2003 issue, Vol. XLII, No. 5 of Civil War Times as the bottom of the table of contents page and on pages 30 and 31. It is an image of the 13th new York heavy artillery somewhere in Virginia (my guess being either Spotsylvania or Petersburg). One young soldier on the left-hand side is wearing a sack coat, braces, what appears to be a canton flannel issue shirt, and then a dark colored shirt underneath that. All in all, it is a very interesting picture. If anyone can give me any more help it would be great. Thanks again!

Sincerely,
Matthew Cassady
104th Illinois Vol. Inf.

[Frenchie]

Re: Issue shirts and undershirts

I was wondering how appropriate it would be for a Federal soldier to wear a civilian shirt underneath a federal issue or contract shirt?
Sincerely,
Matthew Cassady

Matthew, the best reason I can think of to do this is warmth (I did it in the Boy Scouts), followed by a soft flannel or cotton shirt protecting one's tender epidermis from the rough, scratchy issue shirt. If it leaves more room in your knapsack or if you'd rather just wear your extra shirt while campaigning rather than carry it, I see no reason not to. I know that vagrants often wear several shirts, trousers, etc. all at once, and since CW soldiers were also living out of doors and wandering from place to place, it seems to me they'd do a lot of the same things. If it makes sense now, I'll bet it made sense back then.

[Matthew.Rector]

Re: Issue shirts and undershirts

Matthew,
Are you inquiring about regular civilian cotton shirts (with buttons) or cotton undershirts being worn under issue shirts? Or either? I believe cotton knit undershirts being worn under issue shirts was common. There are numerous photos documenting this.
See attached photo for an example.
Photo from the Library of Congress
TITLE: Camp of 71st New Vols. Cook house Soldiers getting dinner ready. (200 Excelsior)
CALL NUMBER: LC-B811- 2414[P&P]
REPRODUCTION NUMBER: LC-DIG-cwpb-01678 (b&w copy scan)
MEDIUM: 1 negative : glass, wet collodion.
CREATED/PUBLISHED: 1861.

[billmatt04]

Re: Issue shirts and undershirts

Matthew,
Are you inquiring about regular civilian cotton shirts (with buttons) or cotton undershirts being worn under issue shirts? Or either? I believe cotton knit undershirts being worn under issue shirts was common. There are numerous photos documenting this.
See attached photo for an example.
Photo from the Library of Congress
TITLE: Camp of 71st New Vols. Cook house Soldiers getting dinner ready. (200 Excelsior)
CALL NUMBER: LC-B811- 2414[P&P]
REPRODUCTION NUMBER: LC-DIG-cwpb-01678 (b&w copy scan)
MEDIUM: 1 negative : glass, wet collodion.
CREATED/PUBLISHED: 1861.

Matthew,
I was referring to the possibility of wearing either type of shirt under an issued shirt. I have an correctly patterned cotton civilian shirt that I was thinking about wearing underneath my Daley issue shirt for campaigning events. I just want to ensure that this practice was in use and acceptable before I attempted it. Nice image, by the way! Thank you for posting it.

Sincerely,
Matthew Cassady
104th Illinois Vol. Inf.

[markj]

Re: Issue shirts and undershirts

I must be missing something, because I didn't really have my question answered by these posts. I'm going to dig around to see if I can find that picture I was referring to. If anyone has any images of men wearing cotton undershirts under their regulation shirts I would love to see them. I'll also look back through those threads again to see if I missed out on a clue or something. Thanks for the help.

Sincerely,
Matthew Cassady
104th Illinois Vol. Inf.

For what's worth, here's another well-known image of an officer in the 114th Pennsylvania (available at "American Memory"). The top of his undershirt can clearly be seen as well as portions of both sleeves. I have also added various images of Lewis Paine (one of the Lincoln death plot conspirators). He is shown wearing a "navy" undershirt, which, in fact, seems to be rather similar to the one worn by that 114th PVI officer.

When it came to undershirts, they were apparently offered in a wide variety of styles and fabrics. An 1856 Indianapolis clothing house advertisement, which I have quoted elsewhere, reported they could be obtained in canton flannel, "merino [wool]," "cotton," silk, linen and in almost everything in-between. Items offered in "merino" were apparently quite pricey: apparently the modern equivalent of $100 or more! Such shirts could be as simple in pattern as a pullover style (shown in the images) to essentially a collared shirt or collarless "banded neck" shirt with a placket. However, for example, undershirt sleeves would have been significantly narrower, and the general fit much tighter, to allow for easy wear under a regular shirt.

What a shame few of these items have survived. Of course, it's perfectly understandable since most of them were "disposable" and never meant to last for considerable lengths of time. Indeed, most of them probably ended up as cleaning rags or even rifle cleaning patches.

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Issue shirts and undershirts

Hallo Kameraden!

To further the discussion...

"If anyone has any images of men wearing cotton undershirts under their regulation shirts I would love to see them."

Just in passing... and maybe stating the obvious (but perhaps needed for the discussion here)-

How are we indentifying or qualifying the wearing of a "cotton undershirt" versus other fabric(s) in period images? ((and not just what may be a cotton (?) "outer shirt" worn in a layered manner under an "issue" shirt for warmth?)

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt

[AzTrooper]

Re: Issue shirts and undershirts

Howdy ,
This is a really interesting thread.I have a question about it... how does one tell what kind of fabric a garment is made of in a period image ? I imagine that it must have something to do with how the garment fits or "hangs" for lack of a better word.. the way the wrinkles show while the garment is being worn etc. Im just curious,I can sure see where knowing how to identify these types of things would help a person when doing research on ones impression,especially if the subject of the image can be identified to a particular unit and even the location, year and the time of year(summer, winter etc.) the image was taken. It does open up a whole lot of possibilities to learn more of the subtle things that were done that I normally would have missed when looking at period images, now Im learning to look more closely at these great period images and more closely examine them.Im finding that now when I look at images that I looked at before, Im noticing a lot of new details almost every time.
Respectfully, John Rogers

Gentlemen and ladies,
I used the search option and did not find the answer to my newest query. I was wondering how appropriate it would be for a Federal soldier to wear a civilian shirt underneath a federal issue or contract shirt? I saw a picture in an issue of Civil War Times of Federal troops at Petersburg, I believe, and it appeared to me that I saw a man wearing a checked shirt underneath a domet flannel issue shirt. I also noticed this practice in the film Wicked Spring. As the weather gets cooler I want to figure out a way to keep warm at late season events without lugging more than one blanket (specifically thinking of Franklin here) and utilizing my issue shirt. If anyone knows of images or documentation of this practice please let me know. Thank you very much, I appreciate all the help that I have been previously given on other questions.

Sincerely,
Matthew Cassady
104th Illinois Vol. Inf.

[hireddutchcutthroat]

Re: Issue shirts and undershirts

Here is a photo taken two blocks from my house in the late 1850s showing the common period practice of working men wearing woolen overshirts. While this is not a military image, and they are not wearing woolen issue shirts, it is understandable that soldiers may have adapted a common civilian practice to a common utilitarian military garment.





Photo with permission Siskiyou County Historical Society all rights reserved.

[billmatt04]

Re: Issue shirts and undershirts

Gentlemen,
I appologize for my tardiness in posting this message, but I wanted to thank you all for helping me with this query. I think that for events I will pack both my cotton home-spun shirt and issue flannel one in case the weather gets chilly (this is especially nice since my vest no longer fits me :tounge_sm ). Thanks again, gents, especially for the fantastic images.

Sincerely,
Matthew Cassady
104th Illinois Vol. Inf.