Guide-Ons

[MarkTK36thIL]

Just wondering if anyone had any information concerning there usage by Federal Infantry. What size they were, construction. Any info would be fine. Thanks
MTK

[markj]

Re: Guide-Ons

Hi Mark,

You ask a very broad and difficult question. The short answer is "Some units used guidons...but many more didn't." This is where detailed, focused research comes into play. Surviving guidons in collections today are disproportionately ID'd to Eastern Theater units (e.g., New York, Pennsylvania, etc.). This isn't to say that Western units didn't use them: they most certainly did (a good case in point is the 71st Indiana, whose two general guides both carried flags according to published Indiana news reports).

However I would suggest you avoid using guidons (or "general guide flags") unless you can find specific evidence for their existence in the unit you wish to portray. Noted flag researcher Howard M. Madaus, who published a multi-part examination of camp colors, guidons, and flank markers in "Military Collector & Historian" a few years ago opines that probably less than 25% of all Federal units (and undoubtedly even fewer Confederate regiments) actually used these types of flags.

You might want to surf around various on-line battleflag sites. The ones for New York, New Jersey, and Illinois are particularly good.

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[billmatt04]

Re: Guide-Ons

I have seen a couple of quide-on flags used by an Illinois infantry regiment while I was attending a ceremony at the Illinois national Guard Museum in Springfield, Illinois. From what I saw, they looked like they were made in a similar way as modern novelty flags. The cloth was dyed in the red, white, and blue colors. Kick Keating has some more information on these particular flags and you can probably email him if you want at this address:

ilfed104@maxiis.com

I hope this helps.

Sincerely,
Matthew Cassady
104th Illinois Vol. Inf.

[1stMaine]

Re: Guide-Ons

Comrade,

Maine certainly made use of guidons and marker flags. Virtually all of them were of the swallow-tail national pattern, with gold painted stars and unit identifications. Not all of them had unit ID's on the center stripe, but many did. These were primarily made of silk.
For a look at some of these flags, go here:

http://www.state.me.us/museum/collections/Flags/Level3/CWDirectory.html

Check out the marker flags of the 7th Maine. These were carried at Antietam, where one of the young men carrying them was killed. These flags were used by the 7th up until July of 1864, when the 7th became, along with the 5th and 6th Maine, the 1st Maine Veteran Volunteers, and received new colors.

That Maine regiments used general guide flags throught the war is evidenced by references to them in extant letters and reports, as well as the muster rolls which show men assigned to that position.

Trusting this is of some small use, I remain, sirs,
Respectfully,

[markj]

Re: Guide-Ons

I have seen a couple of quide-on flags used by an Illinois infantry regiment while I was attending a ceremony at the Illinois national Guard Museum in Springfield, Illinois. From what I saw, they looked like they were made in a similar way as modern novelty flags. The cloth was dyed in the red, white, and blue colors. Kick Keating has some more information on these particular flags and you can probably email him if you want at this address:

ilfed104@maxiis.com

I hope this helps.

Sincerely,
Matthew Cassady
104th Illinois Vol. Inf.

These flag sound like "press-dyed" colors of the type manufactured after January 1862 by such firms as Paton & Co., of New York, under contract to the QM depots (New York, in particular). These are discussed in Howard Madaus' article. An artillery guidon, probably very similar to the one mentioned, is on display in the Indiana Civil War Museum, in Indianapolis, and is ID'd to the 18th ("Lilly's") Indiana Light Artillery Battery.

Tim's comments seem to reinforce my statement that surviving guidons are generally ID'd to Eastern Theater units. Indiana units did use camp colors: there is at least one surviving color in a private collection ID'd to the 20th IVI, which served exclusively in the East. Here are some websites that may be of further assistance:

New York: http://www.dmna.state.ny.us/historic...flagsindex.htm

Iowa: http://www.iowaflags.org/

New Jersey: http://www.njcivilwar.org/

Ohio: http://www.ohiohistory.org/etcetera/...fftc/index.cfm

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[Will Eichler]

Re: Guide-Ons

Hi,

In the mid-1990's, the Journal of the Company of Military historians ran a four part series on guidons. I'm sorry I can't remember off the top of my head which issues they were, but if you go to military-historian.org and look up the back issues, you'll find a good set or articles on this subject.

Good Luck.

Will Eichler

[MarkTK36thIL]

Re: Guide-Ons

Dankesehr gents for the info. I'll check and see what if any mentioned them in their letters to a local newspaper.
MTK

[Rick Keating]

Re: Guide-Ons

In the collection of flags at the Illinois State Military Museum at Camp Lincoln there is a swallow-tail guidon in the design of the national colors stored in the 10th Illinois Infantry drawer.

The other flags mentioned were indeed press-dyed marker flags.

Rick Keating

[Yellowhammer]

Re: Guide-Ons

To Mark's excellent post I would add that some care must be taken when examining original small flags. This is particularly true of those in books as the terms "camp flag" and "guide flag" can be found being used interchangably.

For example, Federal issue camp flags like the one below can frequently be seen identified as guidons. In other cases, simple small flags that may or may not have had military applications are identified as some sort of "regulation" flag or another.

[markj]

Re: Guide-Ons

Hi,

In the mid-1990's, the Journal of the Company of Military historians ran a four part series on guidons. I'm sorry I can't remember off the top of my head which issues they were, but if you go to military-historian.org and look up the back issues, you'll find a good set or articles on this subject.

Good Luck.

Will Eichler

The series of articles can be found at the CoMH online "MC&H" article index:

http://www.military-historians.org/company/journal/search/search.htm

I have also added another item below that might be of interest:

A-2756 Anthony F. Gero Presentation of Colors and Guide-flags to the 9th Regiment, New York State Militia, 1855 Vol. 45, Issue 2, p. 65
A-2963 Howard Michael Madaus Camp Colors, General Guide Flags and Flank Markers in the United States Army, 1861-1865: Part I 48, 2, 50
A-2980 Howard Michael Madaus Camp Colors, General Guide Flags and Flank Markers in the United States Army, 1861-1865: Part II 48, 3, 106
A-2995 Howard Michael Madaus Camp Colors, General Guide Flags and Flank Markers in the United States Army, 1861-1865: Part III 48, 4, 155
A-3012 Howard Michael Madaus Camp Colors, General Guide Flags and Flank Markers in the United States Army, 1861-1865: Part IV 49, 1, 18

Howard Madaus' series of articles are as close to "definitive" as we have right now although new information has, in fact, popped up in recent years.

Regards,

Mark Jaeger