Identify Uniform in Photo

[East_TN_Rebel]

Guys,

I need help in identifying this jacket.

http://www.csaphotos.com/images/cover_2001_640w_480h.JPG

What depot is it from? Anyone ever seen this one before? Possible Color? Any info on any other items he is wearing? I am going to use this photo as a guide for my impression. Mr. Ingle was in my ancestors unit. Any help would be appreciated.

Confederately,

[Masked Battery]

Re: Identify Uniform in Photo

Guys,

I need help in identifying this jacket.

http://www.csaphotos.com/images/cover_2001_640w_480h.JPG

What depot is it from? Anyone ever seen this one before? Possible Color? Any info on any other items he is wearing? I am going to use this photo as a guide for my impression. Mr. Ingle was in my ancestors unit. Any help would be appreciated.

Confederately,

Do you know when Ingle was promoted to Corporal? Can you tell from the picture (or the original) if there are really chevrons on the sleeves, or were they just painted on with gold wash? I know this doesn't really answer your question regarding the uniform type, but it's often beneficial if you can narrow down exactly when an image of a soldier was taken.

[Clark Badgett]

Re: Identify Uniform in Photo

From the look of it I would guess it to be a frock. I have seen photos of this style that were IDed as Tennessee troops from the early war period. Coloration would just be a guess, either dark gray or regulation blue with light blue trim.

[markj]

Re: Identify Uniform in Photo

Greetings,

It's difficult to tell but, given the photo was made presumably sometime before 1863, it may be a jacket made under the commutation system used by Tennessee in 1861-1862. The color of the jacket is subject to debate but Tennessee troops did wear blue uniforms into 1862. I can say this with confidence since a February 1862 Lafayette IN newspaper account, describing the arrival in that city of Tennessee POWs captured at Fort Donelson, reported some prisoners wore "blue coats with buff facings." The prisoners were enlisted men from the 32nd and 41st TN regiments and were interned for several weeks in Lafayette before being transferred to Camp Morton, Indianapolis.

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[Yellowhammer]

Re: Identify Uniform in Photo

By following the trail pointed to by the data presented, and doing a little research, we can make some conjectural assessments as to what this young man is wearing.

First, are the forms in the background those of the soldier in the image? If, yes, we have some of the important information regarding this individual to start with. (If they are just decorative and belong to someone else, we have squat.)

Name: "Pvt. G.W. Ingle"
Unit: "31st Reg't Tennessee Inf."
Enlisted: Feb. 18, 186X

He is enlisted by "W.M. Bradford" for a period (looks like) of "12 mo"

Much of this information is born out by Ingle's data in the Soldiers and Sailors System. His unit, as listed there, was Co D of the 39th Tennessee Mounted Inf. (Col. W. M. Bradford's Reg't Vols. 31 Tenn Inf.) which certainly agrees with both the unit listed on the form and the mustering officer.

He is also listed as entering and leaving service as a private so I believe Mr. Sexton's suspicion that the stripes were merely painted onto the image is correct. However, this could also indicate that GW Ingle is not the fellow in the picture.

Looking into the unit, we hit some confusion. There were two regiments called the 31st Tennessee Infantry Regiment, both organized about the same time and both commanded by a Colonel Bradford. The East Tennessee Regiment commanded by W.M. Bradford was finally officially designated as the 39th and that is the regiment Ingle belonged to.

From the history of Ingle's regiment on the Tennessee GenWeb site, http://www.tngenweb.org/civilwar/csainf/csa39m.html, we can fill in his date of enlisted as likely being Feb 18, 1862 as Co D was officially enrolled in Hawkins County, on that exact date.

So, we now have a confirmed name, rank, unit and date of enlistment.

We have another important clue towards dating the photograph in the notation of his death. "Killed by bush-whackers Green County, Tenn." Green County is located far into East Tennessee where his unit served in October 1862 when the unit marched through that area and possibly in late 1863/early 1864 while serving with Longstreet.

Referring back to the muster form, it appears he enlisted for a period of 12 months so that have him mustering out in Feb. 1863. Since his death is noted on the same form, it is unlikely he re-enlisted for the duration of the war. If this is true, he was most likely killed while serving in East Tennessee in October of 1862.

So, assuming I am interpreting the data at hand correctly (not always a safe bet), we can make the educated guess that image was taken between February 1862 and October 1862.

With that in mind, and with our basic knowledge of CS uniforms, we can now begin to look at the garment. It has shoulder straps, at least seven buttons, and a hook and eye at the collar. Since we have hypothetically determined that the image was taken in 1862, (probably early- perhaps at the time of enlistment as was common with volunteers on both sides), and looking at the uniform details and other trimmings, I think it's pretty clear we are looking at a commutation or Tennessee state issue garment. It is highly unlikely to be a depot garment. All that said, I agree with the earlier assessment that it is likely to be frock as issued by the state of Tennessee.

Anyway, this exercise was just to show how you can begin with a small amount of imformation and, with a little digging and note taking, begin to amass a significant amount of data from which to make educated assumptions. The web has a fantastic amount of information and, without even going to a library, you can get a lot of info.

I heartily encourage all our members to check out the resources available before asking questions. Having your question answered will only give you a small piece of the puzzle. Researching that answer will give you a great deal more information and better rounded view of the subject.

[East_TN_Rebel]

Re: Identify Uniform in Photo

Pards,

I will tell you what I do know about the unit.

The 31st Tennessee was formed in Knoxville Tennessee on March 28, 1862 under the command of William M. Bradford.

Shortly after organization the regiment moved to Loudon, where it was reported on April 30, 1862 with 363 effectives, partly armed with country rifles. On June 30, at Rutledge, it was reported in Brigadier General S. M. Barton's Brigade, composed of the 20th Alabama, 40th Georgia, 39th Tennessee Infantry Regiments, 9th Georgia Infantry Battalion, and the Botetourt Artillery, but a few days later, on July 3, it was reported in Brigadier General C. L. Stevenson's Division, Colonel T. H. Taylor's Brigade, composed of the 3rd, 46th Alabama, 3rd (Vaughn's), 39th, 59th Tennessee Infantry Regiments and the Rhett Artillery. These three Tennessee regiments remained together throughout the war.

On September 18, it set out to join General Braxton Bragg's Army of the Mississippi, reaching him at Harrodsburg, Kentucky, just after the Battle of Perryville, and retreated with his ai'rny to Knoxville. Company reports show that it moved from Loudon to Camp Breckinridge, to Danville, to Harrodsburg, to Versailles, to Lawrenceburg, Kentucky, back via Bryantsville and Lancaster, Kentucky, Cumberland Gap, Bean's Station, Rutledge, Knoxville, Lenoir to Loudon, Tennessee; a march of 700 miles in 42 days, often without food or water, many barefoot, sometimes in dust four inches deep, and to cap the climax, on October 26, a heavy snow, which caught it with no tents, thin clothing, and no cover.

On October 31, 1862, the regiment was reported in Brigadier General Henry Heth's Division, Colonel A. W. Reynold's Brigade, composed of the 3rd (Lillard's), 39th, 59th, 43rd Tennessee, the 39th North Carolina Infantry Regiment, and the 3rd Maryland Battery. The 43rd Tennessee also became a permanent member of the brigade, but the 39th North Carolina was soon transferred elsewhere. 3rd (Lillard's) was originally 3rd (Vaughn's), Colonel J. C. Vaughn having been commissioned brigadier general.

On December 31, 1862, the regiment left Charleston via rail for Jackson, Mississippi where it arrived after ten days and nights in crowded box cars. Here Reynolds' Brigade, Stevenson's Division, was placed in the forces commanded by Lieutenant General J. C. Pemberton, and moved to Vicksburg, Mississippi, where the regiment was engaged in picket duty for some time. In February, 1863, a detachment of three companies was placed on a small steam ferry boat with two cannons, and captured the Federal gun boat "Queen of the West." Shortly thereafter, in company with other troops, the same men from the 39th manned the "Queen of the West" and the "Webb," and captured the ironclad gun boat "Indianola." On May 1, the regiment was ordered to Port Gibson, but arrived after the fight. On May 15, in the engagement at Raymond, Mississippi, the brigade was assigned to guard the baggage trains, and was involved in a skirmish at Baker's Creek. It then returned to Vicksburg, and spent 47 days in the trenches, until the surrender of Vicksburg July 4, 1863. All company reports during this period complained of the horrible beef which was furnished, so bad that the men would not eat it. The regiment was surrendered and paroled with the rest of Pemberton's Army.
From TNGenWeb.org

http://www.tngenweb.org/civilwar/csainf/csa39m.html

As for any specifics I know about the picture, I really don't know much other than what is shown. I do plan on obtaining the 2001 Confederate Calendar the photo is in. Maybe I will be able to see more detail. I will also try to make contact with a friend of mine to see if he knows any other specifics about the photo.

Thanks Again,

[East_TN_Rebel]

Re: Identify Uniform in Photo

Pards,

The muster sheets that are behind the photo of G.W. Ingle are indead his. Here is a little more info I have on his muster sheets. This info comes from a book by Sheila Weems Johnston called "The Blue and Gray - From Hawkins County Tennessee 1861-1865 - The Confederates"

He was 17 yrs old when he enlisted on 18, Feb. 1862 at Dodson Creek in Hawkins County Tennessee. His enlistment was for 12 months.
May/Jun 62 muster shows him being detailed Brigade Wagoner on 14 Jun 62 for 2 weeks.
Jul/Aug 62 moster shows him absent/sick at Strawberry Plains Tennessee. Sep/Oct 62 muster has him absent without leave.
Nov/Dec 62 muster and Jan/Feb 63 muster has him Detailed guard on railroad.
March/Apr 63 muster is were a note is made that Ingle was killed by bush wackers in Greene County Tennessee.

What is interesting to note is the Unit was shipped out of East Tennessee for Vicksburg MS in late Dec. 62. So I am not sure why he was still in East Tennessee early in 63.

Reguards,

[PvtRoland]

Re: Identify Uniform in Photo

What is interesting to note is the Unit was shipped out of East Tennessee for Vicksburg MS in late Dec. 62. So I am not sure why he was still in East Tennessee early in 63.

Reguards,[/QUOTE]

From looking at his service records it appears that he was detailed away from his unit, specifically to guard railroad bridges in early '63, so that is why he wouldn't have travelled to Vicksburg with the rest of his regiment. Remember, East Tennessee was the home of the Unionist bridge burners, and many units stationed there spent a lot of time guarding railroad bridges.
This is a great photo. I've always been interested in East Tennessee Confederates in particular. I also noticed that on Ingle's right arm the lower chevron goes straight over a wrinkle in his uniform, so I would assume it is painted on. I believe there is also a published diary out there somewhere from the 31st/39th Mounted Infantry. I'll try to find it.
Nicholas Roland

[PvtRoland]

Re: Identify Uniform in Photo

This book is published by the Hawkins County Geneological & Historical Society. They have a website you can find this on.
A Smith in Service: Diaries of Calvin Morgan Smith, 1847-1864 By Leland Smith. 100 pages + index, soft cover, 8.5 x 11. $10.00 + $3.95 s&h, TN residents add $0.88 sales tax.
This was an officer in the 31st/39th Tennessee Mounted Infantry. I hope this is of interest to you.
Nicholas Roland

[tarwater_mess]

Re: Identify Uniform in Photo

Guys,

I need help in identifying this jacket.

http://www.csaphotos.com/images/cover_2001_640w_480h.JPG

What depot is it from? Anyone ever seen this one before? Possible Color? Any info on any other items he is wearing? I am going to use this photo as a guide for my impression. Mr. Ingle was in my ancestors unit. Any help would be appreciated.

Confederately,

I too have to agree it appears to be a Frock Coat. Judging from the trim of the collarr and cap, I would lean toward a medium gray homespun jean with black trimmed collar. The collar APPEARS to have additional piping around the edge as well, could be mistaken on this. One could assume the should tabs would be trimmed to match the collar too. I cannot tell if the sleeves are trimmed, appears they are not.The buckle appears to be a fork tongue or Frame..leaning toward the fork tongue.

I would be interested to know more about the breast plate.

Good luck

[markj]

Re: Identify Uniform in Photo

Greetings,

Another potential source that may assist you is:

Microfilm ID M268
Record Group RG109
Title Compiled Service Records of Confederate Soldiers Who Served in Organizations From the State of Tennessee,
Physical Description 359 rolls ; 16mm.
Index Term Civil War
Index Term Confederate
Index Term Tennessee
General Notes DP out of print. Roll list in "Military Service Records" (1985) pages 133-138.
Descriptive Pamphlet Available? Yes
Roll List Available? Yes
NARA Viewing Location Archives I Research Room Services Branch
National Archives and Records Administration
7th and Pennsylvania Ave., NW
Washington DC 20408-0001
Phone: 202-501-5400
Storage Location: 062-01
NARA Viewing Location NARA's Central Plains Region (Kansas City, MO)
National Archives and Records Administration
2312 East Bannister Road
Kansas City MO 64131-3011
Phone: 816-926-6920 FAX: 816-926-6982
Holdings note: ROLLS 4, 41, 294, 342, 344
NARA Viewing Location NARA's Rocky Mountain Region (Denver, CO)
National Archives and Records Administration
P.O. Box 25307
Denver CO 80225-0307
Phone: 303-236-0817 FAX: 303-236-9354
Holdings note: ROLLS 10, 14, 40, 41, 58, 66, 68, 76, 101-106, 108, 112, 113, 121, 124, 190
NARA Viewing Location NARA's Southeast Region (Atlanta, GA)
National Archives and Records Administration
1557 St. Joseph Avenue
East Point GA 30344-2593
Phone: 404-763-7065 FAX: 404-763-7059
For Sale? Yes
Order From National Archives Trust Fund
General Notes DP out of print. Roll list in "Military Service Records" (1985) pages 133-138.

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[East_TN_Rebel]

Re: Identify Uniform in Photo

Nicholas,

Thanks for the info on the Diary. I actully have that diary and it is an interesting read. The diary was written by Calvin Morgan Smith (1st LT. of Company D. of the 31st/39th Tennessee) and is edited by one of his decendants Leland L. Smith. I have a buddy in my SCV camp here in Mechancisville Virginia who is a decendant of Calvin Morgan Smith. So it is a small world indeed.

The diary contains recounts of Mr. Smith's time in:
The Mexican war (October 29, 1847 - July 20, 1848).
A river journey he went on (January 14, 1853 - February 6, 1853)
Vicksburg Campaign (February 7, 1863 - August 31, 1863)
Shenandoah Valley (with ANV) (July 17, 1864 - October 22, 1864)

quote from Lt Calvin Morgan Smith Thursday, April 2, 1863 (Vicksburg MS)

"South not like to the North, Don't want a dictator. We love and intend to cherish freedom and that right that was handed down to us by our forefathers. We respect the Constitution that guarantees to us and our posterity those privileges that the world admires. The frist great northern dictator will cause ruin of those grand towns and citites, factories, and institustions that this country could once boast of. The most magnificent the world ever saw, visited by every nation on the globe and talked of by every tongue. But she is declining ad the noonday sun is receding westward, the northern states is loosing that splendor that but a short time ago was so visible. Just so with all things created, as one thing goes down another will rise. The South will never be subjugated. No, as the war continues the South will build up and our young and rising childern will behold in the South one of the most wealthy and happy people that ever lived.

It is hoped that our wives, mothers, children, and friends will keep in heart and continue to work and manage affairs of the farms and homes while we continue to keep back the foe. They will become tired of this foolish destruction of property and shamed and disgraced and abandon the army to return to their homes without having accomplished the object sought for.

The Mass of the people at the North are beginning to understand the nature of the great warfare they are engaged in and will desert their armies untill they can not have men to guard a camp. Our armies are in better spirits and health than ever before and will do wonders in every engagement with the enemy.

We have arms and ammunition and all kinds of army equipage sufficient for our defence. We used to fear the approach of a gunboat, but now we love to have them trying to pass. The sound of cannon used to make us start and hearts to palpitate, but now it is joy in our ears, revives our pent up cares and cheers us powerfully. If a battle is fought around Vicksburg, you will hear of that heroic valor that has been so often displayed during this war. I hope to survive this war, only to live with my family in the enjoyments of the rights of southern people."

Calvin Smith would later die from wounds received in battle at Morristown TN (less than 20 miles from his home), on Nov. 3rd 1864.


Reguards,

[Secede1863]

Re: Identify Uniform in Photo

It appears to be a Frock Coat, But Did anyone notice Something about the Muster Roll? If you look on the paper, to the right of the photo, It says something about "uster Roll" Which I would presume meant Muster Roll (The M is covered up by the picture in question) Well then it had a signature and then an 1861, Well the one was corssed out and written 3 so We know That does not mean Muster Out Roll Perhaps That is when he was Promoted,Or It Could be when he joined up (Even though the coat looks early war).
...Just My Bit of Information Shall You wish to look at it

Andrew Stebbins

[MuddyG.I.]

Re: Identify Uniform in Photo

In regards to the photo of George W. Ingle. I have had a copy of this photo for a few years now and have studied it a lot along with others from the 31st/39th W.M. Bradford's TN. Vol. Inf. My current re-enactment group portrays William M. Bradfords 31st Co. G TN. It is to my belief that his jacket is a Richmond Depot Type 1. I think this because of the collar, epaulets, and belt loops. Although it is very possible to be a jacket made on the home commutation system copied on the lines of the Richmond Depot Type 1. The piping on the collar and the buttons also help me to think this. His belt buckle appears to be a large roller buckle and the breast plate looks to be a plain brass plate. Also just barelly visible is a small neck clasp on the standup collar. I futher believe that the chevrons are painted on. The buttons and the breast plate have gold coloring added to them wich seams to be a common practice with civil war photos, so I think the photographer may have added the chevrons as well. The color of the jacket I would think is a medium to dark shade of grey, but this is hard to determine with such an old photo that has been copied and in black and white. I don't think this jacket is jean cloth, becuase the fabric looks to smooth compared to other photos of soldiers wearing jean cloth, maybe some form of wool. I hope my views of PVT. Ingle's photograph can help you or at least leand a differant perspective on this subject
Regards,
Shane A. Lawson

[125th ohio drummer]

Re: Identify Uniform in Photo

Guys,

I need help in identifying this jacket.

http://www.csaphotos.com/images/cover_2001_640w_480h.JPG

What depot is it from? Anyone ever seen this one before? Possible Color? Any info on any other items he is wearing? I am going to use this photo as a guide for my impression. Mr. Ingle was in my ancestors unit. Any help would be appreciated.

Confederately,

it looks to me that the jacket may be a state issue shell....im know new york and ohio issued them to some troops. i may be wrong.