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  • CS frock coats

    Comrades,

    I'm in the market to have someone make my first CS frock coat. I'm thinking of something very plain, representing commutation work. What sort of buttons would be most appropriate?

    Thanks in advance,

    Jeff, two things. Please sign your full name to all posts as outlined in the forum rules you agreed to abide by. Second, check the search function of the forum for possible answers to your question. - Mike Chapman
    [FONT=Comic Sans MS]Jeff Schnakenberg[/FONT]

    Formerly of the Palmetto Living History Association (PLHA)
    Now a reluctant member of The Pentagon Puzzle Palace Godawful Mess

  • #2
    Re: CS frock coats

    Originally posted by JSchnak950
    Comrades,

    I'm in the market to have someone make my first CS frock coat. I'm thinking of something very plain, representing commutation work. What sort of buttons would be most appropriate?

    Thanks in advance,

    Jeff, two things. Please sign your full name to all posts as outlined in the forum rules you agreed to abide by. Second, check the search function of the forum for possible answers to your question. - Mike Chapman
    Jeff,

    I'd go with wooden buttons. Excellent ones can be purchased from Missouri Boot and Shoe. - Phil Maddox
    Phil Maddox
    Hedgesville Blues
    "He playeth 'eucre' with the parson, whether there shall be preaching in camp on the Sabbath, and by dexterously turning jack from the bottom of the pack, postponeth the service." - Camp of the "Turned-Over and Used-Ups," Sept. 27, 1862.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: CS frock coats

      Originally posted by Cornfed
      Jeff,

      I'd go with wooden buttons. Excellent ones can be purchased from Missouri Boot and Shoe. - Phil Maddox
      For Early, mid, or late War, plain brass buttons would be fine.

      Everett taylor
      [FONT="Book Antiqua"]Everett Taylor[/FONT]

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: CS frock coats

        Couple of questions should be answered before you make any decision.

        What period of the war are you portraying?
        What Unit?
        If a specific unit, have you done any research to see what that unit wore in the period you want to portray.

        The answer to these questions will affect what kind of buttons should be worn. I don't know what survived the latest forum melt down but a forum search may turn up the answer to your question or at least make you more familiar as to what is to be considered.
        Jim Mayo
        Portsmouth Rifles, Company G, 9th Va. Inf.

        CW Show and Tell Site
        http://www.angelfire.com/ma4/j_mayo/index.html

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: CS frock coats

          As far as a "generic" impression goes, a large percentage of the extant coats in EOG have Federal eagle buttons, so I rock those on my plain everyman frock.
          Eric Alan Wisbith
          63d P.V./ Yard Apes Mess

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: CS frock coats

            Wooden buttons? Plain coin buttons? Can you guys point to some originals with these buttons on them?
            Patrick Landrum
            Independent Rifles

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: CS frock coats

              Too bad there aren't any reproduction CS general service eagle buttons.


              Brian White
              Last edited by GreencoatCross; 10-18-2006, 08:42 PM.
              Brian White
              [URL="http://wwandcompany.com"]Wambaugh, White, & Co.[/URL]
              [URL="https://www.facebook.com/pages/Wambaugh-White-Company/114587141930517"]https://www.facebook.com/pages/Wambaugh-White-Company/114587141930517[/URL]
              [email]brian@wwandcompany.com[/email]

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: CS frock coats

                Jeff, a good first step would be to take a look at original pictures, early war period and go from there. With some pictures it might be hard to tell, but if you can snag some online try to use a magnification process and get a good close up.

                I'd also take a look at the region you might be portraying a soldier from and take a look at some letters/journals and see if you can find any information there.

                I hope this helps!
                Herb Coats
                Armory Guards &
                WIG

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: CS frock coats

                  Thanks to all who responded with constructive advice. For the record, I did a search on the board prior to asking. If this was hashed out in the past, its lost in cyberspace after the Great Crash of 2006. I've also looked at as many photos as I can, but most photos of CS enlisted frocks I've found are either from the militia/1st Manassas period and/or are too indistinct to determine the type of button. If you know where I can find better photos, please teach me How to Fish and point me in the right direction and I'll take it from there.

                  I'm not looking to copy a specific unit or battle. On the contrary, I'm hoping for this to be a good general service garment until the inevitable happens, and I fill my closet with all the specific cool depot jackets.

                  Thanks again,

                  Jeff
                  [FONT=Comic Sans MS]Jeff Schnakenberg[/FONT]

                  Formerly of the Palmetto Living History Association (PLHA)
                  Now a reluctant member of The Pentagon Puzzle Palace Godawful Mess

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: CS frock coats

                    General service eagle buttons.

                    Common for any CW period. I have some documentation for use on shell jackets on http://www.angelfire.com/ma4/j_mayo/csequip.html
                    Jim Mayo
                    Portsmouth Rifles, Company G, 9th Va. Inf.

                    CW Show and Tell Site
                    http://www.angelfire.com/ma4/j_mayo/index.html

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: CS frock coats

                      Jim,
                      I noticed on your website you mention Federal Eagle buttons are routinely found in CS camps. I agree, however you can find CS and US items in camps because many campsites would be used by both sides.
                      Here in Ky we find more flat buttons than anything else in CS camps. Granted these camps are 1861-1862 timeline, but I have a hard time believing these buttons weren't used on military coats or jackets.
                      I havent been able to see the coats and jackets in the MOC, but I do have a copy of their catalog. They state the backmarks for the buttons, however without seeing the actual buttons we cant tell which are period and which are post.
                      I'm not arguing about the use of Federal buttons, they were mass produced and would have been widely available for Southern tailors. I'm just saying civilian buttons were also widely available.
                      everett taylor
                      [FONT="Book Antiqua"]Everett Taylor[/FONT]

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: CS frock coats

                        Everett: I agree. There are always some flat buttons found in ANV CS camps however, I think they were on civilian attire more than uniforms. The earlier the camp, the more gilted and fancy type of civilian buttons are recovered. Perhaps this was due to the early use of civilian items but there is no way to be sure. Interestingly enough, I have found more flat buttons in US late war locations than in late CS locations. Years ago I hunted the Pamplin Park and Howlett Line area on the CS side of the trenches. Hardly found any flat buttons but mostly eagles, tin back block I and a smattering of state and other buttons. Back then I thought the eagle buttons in the Pamplin area were lost by the yankees after the breakthrough. Now I have come to the conclusion that more eagle buttons were in use by the Confederates than is generally thought. The US 5th, 6th and 9th corps camps along Flank Road in Petersburg were full of flat buttons of all sizes ranging from the size of a half dime to that of a silver dollar as well as eagle buttons. I have never figured what the big flat buttons were used on.

                        Some mid war CS camps along the Blackwater River yielded plain eagles, eagle I along with block letter and some state buttons. Hardly any flat buttons and when they were found they were small, possibly shirt or vest buttons.

                        Perhaps with the supply problems in your area more civilian garmets were worn and perhaps the military supply of buttons was not as efficient. It would be interesting to hear more specific information relating to time period and what was found from some of the hunters in the area.

                        One thing kind of unrelated that has always puzzled me. If buttons were scarce or difficult to come by, why didn't the Richmond Depot make jackets with fewer than 9 buttons. They could have gone to 7 like the CD jackets. One possible answer could be that they had enough military buttons of the desired type to furnish the jackets with 9. I wonder if anyone on the forum has any information along these lines?

                        After saying all of the above take a look at what came out of one spot about 4 by 4 feet. Some of everything. Shows how much my opinion is worth.
                        Last edited by Jimmayo; 01-20-2008, 03:45 PM.
                        Jim Mayo
                        Portsmouth Rifles, Company G, 9th Va. Inf.

                        CW Show and Tell Site
                        http://www.angelfire.com/ma4/j_mayo/index.html

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: CS frock coats

                          Im a personal fan of the large flat coin buttons, myself... :sarcastic , but if you want "everyday", I would go with wood (trans-miss)or eagle buttons(ANV).

                          Just my two cents...
                          Guy W. Gane III
                          Casting Director/Owner
                          Old Timey Casting, LLC.

                          Member of:
                          49th NYVI Co. B
                          The Filthy Mess

                          Historian since 1982 - Reenactor since birth - Proud Member of the 'A.C.' since September 2004.sigpic

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: CS frock coats

                            Where is the documentation on wooden buttons being Trans Miss or Eagle buttons being ANV? This is ALL broad stroke comments. Folks lets get back to documenting originals or using things in great amounts more than just saying what is a trend around the campfire!
                            Patrick Landrum
                            Independent Rifles

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: CS frock coats

                              Post deleted due to lack of sanity.
                              Last edited by Jimmayo; 10-20-2006, 04:01 PM. Reason: Posted in error.
                              Jim Mayo
                              Portsmouth Rifles, Company G, 9th Va. Inf.

                              CW Show and Tell Site
                              http://www.angelfire.com/ma4/j_mayo/index.html

                              Comment

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