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Re: '61 -'65 U.S. Marine Impression?
Originally Posted by marine05
Also the reference in a preceding post concerning the use of "Master", well, it is accepted for Marine Corps junior officers aboard Naval vessels to be referred to as Mister, the old Navy had a rank of Master as in Sailing Master. As near as I can figure it was a sort of Warrant Rank, not senior to a Midshipman, but still sort of technically senior.
CSMC Marines successfully defended Drurys (sp) Bluff on the approach to Richmond, sinking Union gunboats and sharpshooting that the Navy was forced to withdraw.
s/f
DJM
Just thought I could clear this up a bit. The rank of Master is a uniquely Navy rank. It is NOT a warrent rank. The Navy had warrents, Bo's'un, Gunner, Carpenter and Clerk.
The rank of Master, at the time of the ACW fit between Passed Midshipman/Ensign and Leutinent. It was roughly equal to a First LT. in the Army or Marines. However, it was not part of an officers progression in rank, but an almost seperate class of officer.
Like the regular Armmy, Naval officers came from the academy. There were of course wartime "Acting" or "Volunteer" officers, like in the the Army. Masters were men who had long service and proven ability.
The Navy was a very class conssious organization. In the Antibellum Navy, it was not considered proper for an officer (and a Gentalman) to speak directly to an enlisted Sailor. Sailors were reguarded as nothing more than pieces of ships equipment, needed to operate the ship. Officers were taught to think of them as the dregs of society, scum of the earth and the sweepings of the waterfront taverns. And, in many cases they were not far from the truth.
Any way, this is were the Masters come in. They were not "Academy Officers', there fore they were able to speak directly with the Sailors. Many had been Sailors and "came up through the Fo'cs'el" as the saying went. Others were former Merchant officers and some during the war were former academy midshipmen who had "bilged out" and were offered commissions as Masters to get some use out of the training they already had.
Officers could give orders , directing the Bos'un's Mate to call all hands to quarters and such, but if there were issues with the crew that needed addressing it was felt that it was unbecomming of an officer to concern himself with such things. The Master was the go between. Masters could and often were detailed off with a small party of Sailors for landing parties or prize crews.
The Civil War taught the lesson to many new young officers that they needed to deal directly with their men. They saw that it was simply a much more efficent way to do business, and that by listening to their men (many who had years of experience at sea things worked better. They also noticed that Army Company grade officers worked closely with their senior enlisted men and it seemed to work.
The last Master was retired in 1879. The rank of Master was dropped and turned into the rank of Leutinent Junior Grade (LTJG).
I know this subject was pretty much closed, but I thought it may be of interest to some. The Navy is misunderstood by most living historians and therefore dismissed. And I must admit that the majority of Naval impressions out there are simply horrible and based on mythology. Research into this can be tricky since there are few hard and fast rules and regs in the Navy and many Commanding Officers made thing up as they went along. Some creating a set of enlisted rank titles and insignia for their ship only. This ability of COs to change things as they wish from ship to ship really throughs confussion into groups that are trying to get it right.
Thank you and please excuse the spelling.
Steve Hesson
Originally Posted by marine05
Also the reference in a preceding post concerning the use of "Master", well, it is accepted for Marine Corps junior officers aboard Naval vessels to be referred to as Mister, the old Navy had a rank of Master as in Sailing Master. As near as I can figure it was a sort of Warrant Rank, not senior to a Midshipman, but still sort of technically senior.
CSMC Marines successfully defended Drurys (sp) Bluff on the approach to Richmond, sinking Union gunboats and sharpshooting that the Navy was forced to withdraw.
s/f
DJM
Just thought I could clear this up a bit. The rank of Master is a uniquely Navy rank. It is NOT a warrent rank. The Navy had warrents, Bo's'un, Gunner, Carpenter and Clerk.
The rank of Master, at the time of the ACW fit between Passed Midshipman/Ensign and Leutinent. It was roughly equal to a First LT. in the Army or Marines. However, it was not part of an officers progression in rank, but an almost seperate class of officer.
Like the regular Armmy, Naval officers came from the academy. There were of course wartime "Acting" or "Volunteer" officers, like in the the Army. Masters were men who had long service and proven ability.
The Navy was a very class conssious organization. In the Antibellum Navy, it was not considered proper for an officer (and a Gentalman) to speak directly to an enlisted Sailor. Sailors were reguarded as nothing more than pieces of ships equipment, needed to operate the ship. Officers were taught to think of them as the dregs of society, scum of the earth and the sweepings of the waterfront taverns. And, in many cases they were not far from the truth.
Any way, this is were the Masters come in. They were not "Academy Officers', there fore they were able to speak directly with the Sailors. Many had been Sailors and "came up through the Fo'cs'el" as the saying went. Others were former Merchant officers and some during the war were former academy midshipmen who had "bilged out" and were offered commissions as Masters to get some use out of the training they already had.
Officers could give orders , directing the Bos'un's Mate to call all hands to quarters and such, but if there were issues with the crew that needed addressing it was felt that it was unbecomming of an officer to concern himself with such things. The Master was the go between. Masters could and often were detailed off with a small party of Sailors for landing parties or prize crews.
The Civil War taught the lesson to many new young officers that they needed to deal directly with their men. They saw that it was simply a much more efficent way to do business, and that by listening to their men (many who had years of experience at sea things worked better. They also noticed that Army Company grade officers worked closely with their senior enlisted men and it seemed to work.
The last Master was retired in 1879. The rank of Master was dropped and turned into the rank of Leutinent Junior Grade (LTJG).
I know this subject was pretty much closed, but I thought it may be of interest to some. The Navy is misunderstood by most living historians and therefore dismissed. And I must admit that the majority of Naval impressions out there are simply horrible and based on mythology. Research into this can be tricky since there are few hard and fast rules and regs in the Navy and many Commanding Officers made thing up as they went along. Some creating a set of enlisted rank titles and insignia for their ship only. This ability of COs to change things as they wish from ship to ship really throughs confussion into groups that are trying to get it right.
Thank you and please excuse the spelling.
Steve Hesson
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