Federal Frock Coat

[PAvolunteer61]

Since Frock Coats come unhemmed, is mid way between the hip and knee the right place to have them hemmed and what is the proper stitching for finishing the hem? Anyone with directions on how to do this myself would be appreciated

Ed Brouse

[Busterbuttonboy]

Re: Federal Frock Coat

Ed
A couple quick searches through the LOC photos and i saw some examples that might help you. Likewise i consulted the 1861 Regulations and saw some prose in there to. Just an example of what 10 or 15 minuets worth of "google-ing" and "ooogle-ing" can do to try to answer your question.
Most Respectfully
Drew Gruber
14thNJVI
Buttonhat Boys

1861 Regulations:

1442. All officers shall wear a frock-coat of dark blue cloth, the skirt to extend from two-thirds to three-fourths of the distance from the top of the hip to the bent of the knee; single breasted for Captains and Lieutenants; double-breasted for all other grades.

1454. The uniform coat for all enlisted foot men, shall be a single-breasted frock of dark blue cloth, made without plaits, with a skirt extending one-half the distance from the top of the hip to the bend of the knee; one row of nine buttons on the breast, placed at equal distances....

[Guy Gane III]

Re: Federal Frock Coat

As, I haven't personally seen any with it hemmed, I can imagine that at least one person had done it. I look at the situation and say to myself, would I have done it... If you reason that hemming it would make it less likely to fray, personal choice, etc., I would understand. If YOU had nothing to do and had the thread and needle, why not. I haven't come across any order or mention of restricting the men from doing it. (Anyone else have anything?)

If you do go ahead and do it, I would recommend only taking up about a 1/4 inch and doing a topstitch on it.

[Shockoe Hill Cats]

Re: Federal Frock Coat

I can provide a few photographs from personal collections and one that was posted on the Forum a few months back.

- In the first photograph we can see that the hem comes to 2-3 inches from where his hands fall down. Had they been fully extended it may have possibly fallen on the tip of his middle finger. It's a bit hard to see whether his frock is hemmed or not but his frock is an excellent example of one none the less.

- The second is one of my favourites that was being sold on eBay at one point. Five Western Federals (I believe) in 1863 show a full size range of the frock coat. Again, it is a few inches from the length of the arm and midway between the thigh.

- The last shows the 118th New York. The interesting point about this one is that though the men vary in height, all have the same proportional length to their frock coat lengths. Whether they're hemmed are not is, again, hard to tell.

[riptailedroarer]

Re: Federal Frock Coat

There is a good reason not to hem , it helps shed rain water! with a raw edge the water just drips of, but with a hem it can't so you have a damp skirt that won't dry. Thats what I was told About Brish army frock coats. FWIW

[Clsinclair]

Re: Federal Frock Coat

This tread caused me to check my Federal Frock coat. I had it made two years ago using Federal broadcloth. It is not hemed. It is not fraying. So I will leave it alone.

Claude Sinclair
Lancaster, SC

[PAvolunteer61]

Re: Federal Frock Coat

Great points and pictures. I always thought that these would have been finished, but now going back and looking at the pictures of originals at the Smithsonian and other web sites, plus the mentioned points above, it does make sense that it would be a raw edge. Thanks for the input.

Ed Brouse

[ThehosGendar]

Re: Federal Frock Coat

Leave it unhemmed.

It's difficult to use many photographs to get an idea of hemming or unhemming the skirt edge because alot of photos don't get that close to register the details of lines of topstitching or the puckering evident of hand stitches. While only one image, LC-DIG-cwpb-04033, "Officers and non-commissioned officers of Company D, 93d New York Infantry" is one image that does get that close, and you can see the line of whipstitching holding back the front skirt facing, terminating behind the hand of the officer in front of the Sergeant. Although a bit hard to see, it doesn't look like another row of whipstitching (which is the optimal stitch to use when hemming by hand) starts at the lower edge of the skirt.

Unfortunately, you can't get in close enough to see any raw strands from the skirt edge, and that'd be the real cincher. However, if you look at the bottom edge of the skirt closest to the hand of the officer, you can somewhat make out the fold of the interior facing.

[Jake Marley]

Re: Federal Frock Coat

Ed,

On the original enlisted dress coats I've examined--which were constructed by different makers--the skirts were not hemmed. Nor were the edges of visible seam allowances finished with overcasting or flat-felling. I cannot speculate on why this was so. Moreover, there may be other specimens having finished edges. But I am currently planning my own dress coat "project" with Mrs. Marley and we are not going to finish seam allowances or the raw edge of the skirt.

Take care,

Nic Ellis

[EvilRob]

Re: Federal Frock Coat

Leave it unhemmed. I have seen a few guys hemed there's and they just didn't look right. Mine has the raw edge and I have not had any problems with it.

Rob Michael
Frockhead Mess

[HOG.EYE.MAN]

Re: Federal Frock Coat

Ed,

On the original enlisted dress coats I've examined--which were constructed by different makers--the skirts were not hemmed. Nor were the edges of visible seam allowances finished with overcasting or flat-felling. I cannot speculate on why this was so.

Army cloth used in Federal frock coats did not fray, therefore, the material was not hemmed. Leaving raw edges on garments that stayed in tack, is a good example of a "period shortcut" used by tailors at the time.

[Watchdog]

Re: Federal Frock Coat

Uniform frock coats like civilian frock coats were generally not hemmed. The main reason being that well-made fabric did not unravel. Why add an uneccesary step to the process? All the original civilan frock coats in my collection (12) are not hemmed. This thinking also applied to military coats as the tailoring of these coats was based on civilian practices in many respects. The military frock coats that I have examined were also unhemmed.

Some soldier may have decided to hem his out of boredom (less likely), or if the coat was adjueted to fit him better (likely) or the material was not of a better quality--army contractors often being the low bidders (more likely).

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: Federal Frock Coat

Uniform frock coats like civilian frock coats were generally not hemmed.

You are referring to Federal enlisted frocks here, correct? I am not as familiar with civilian garments, but there are many examples of hemmed CS frock coats, as well as Federal officer frocks.

[Jim Moffet]

Re: Federal Frock Coat

In preparation for a recent project, I examined 5 original Federal field grade officer's frocks - none had the blue woolen cloth of the tails hemmed. All had the black silk or cotton tail linings hemmed: the lining was hand overcast ("felled") approx. 3/16" up from the bottom edge of the wool. Due to the quality of the woolen goods, and the skill of the tailors, the stitches of the lining hem were virtually invisible from the exterior of the garments.

Jim Moffet
First Minnesota, Co. A

[TKlas]

Re: Federal Frock Coat

I would agree with the prior statements that I would avoid any hemming on the skirt bottom regarding enlisted uniform coats. As has been stated, the quality of the cloth used allowed this to be ommitted on original specimens.

If you have not had a chance to view some original enlisted uniform (or dress) coats, I will offer a link that has some good pics of two original coats.

http://www2.inxpress.net/jwedeward/original_frock_coat.htm

As for officer dress coats, the junior officer coats I have examined did not have any hemming in the bottom skit, but as most are aware, these were privately purchased and the chance for individual differnces among officers coats is common.

Best Regards,

Tom