Spys and Scouts

[hardeeflag]

I've always been interested in small obscure units and studying the mico historic elements of the WBTS. One thing I have always been interested is Spys and small Scouts units. I am reading "fagots from the campfire" right now and am enjoying it.

I was wondering if the term spy and scout were synonymous. Some of the mounted units that were independent scouting companies seem to be really regular cavalry used as far forward reconnasance and clothed in regular uniform. Scouts who reported to the provost martial look like they operated covertly, but really from reading would have been easily identified as such because they seemed to be much better armed than the regular citizen. One questions is wouldn't it have been obvious what these men were up to if spotted and wouldn't they be under suspicion since they were typically young men of military age. Did these men wear civilian clothes or uniforms? Spys who operated individually seem to really gather much more secretive material than those simply operating within enemy lines. Were innocent men hung for being mistaken for scouts? Are my assessments correct?

Also does anyone have any good sources material to study on this? I have studied a couple of units that operated as scouts (Nutt's Louisiana Cav. Company - attached to Granbury's Brig.) and am quite intrigued by their operations. Does anyone do this as an impression and is there any room for such and impression? It seems to me it would only be effective in a tactical/campaign style event.

[majdoc]

Re: Spys and Scouts

Hi Rich.
Good question.
One book I have is _ Rebel Scouts the last ride home. this mainly is bout Sam Davis and Dewitl Jobe. Also find out about the Confederate Torpedo bearue(? on spelling) This was part of a front for the Confederate Secret Service. Main commander Gen. Gabril Rains.
There are several other books and papers, give me a chance to go through my library and I will send you more.
Have a good Chrismas and New Years
Your Obediant Servant
Jim(Doc) Bruce

[MosbyCSA1863]

Re: Spys and Scouts

Rich

If you want a good read on scouts, check out "Mosby's Rangers" by Jeffry D. Wert
The book is a good read. It talks alot about Union counter operations against Mosby's Rangers. hanging innocent men as well as guilty ones on both sides.All in all its a really good book. hope this helps.



Ken Fannin

[Forquer]

Re: Spys and Scouts

Rich -

You may want to check out "Headquarters in the Brush - Blazer's Independent Union Scouts" by Darl Stephenson. Talks about some of the boys that went in after Mosby.

[frankstevanus]

Re: Spys and Scouts

"I am reading "fagots from the campfire" right now and am enjoying it."
Rich:
I don't think I would enjoy reading anything about 'fagots' but like you I have found the study and reasearch into various "non-regular" cavalry jobs such as scouts and rangers to be fascinating. And while there is certianly not the vast pool of writings out there as with regular cavalry, I would recommend going to Amazon.com and looking for such books. I have found many listed for sale there.
I have dozens of books on the subject, so if you mail me I'll give you a list and a quick check to see if they are worth the bread to buy.
Lots of good stuff in these books that will answer all your questions. Too much to write here. Good topic, though.
Frank Stevanus

[jpbab]

Re: Spys and Scouts

I was wondering if the term spy and scout were synonymous.

Technically "no". Although the rules were not clearly defined in the Laws of War a few generations later, those were formulated based on the accepted norms. A "spy" is technically anyone is civilian clothing (in the service or not) that is gathering information to be given to the enemy. Accepted norm is they could be executed when caught.

A "scout" is performing nearly the same mission but as a uniformed member of armed services or under contract to an armed service. Once captured he would be treated as a POW.

Granted what and how they did their duties, and who was employed or not employed by who probably overlapped a greatdeal but I guess you could say, you might mistakenly have dinner with a spy but never a scout.

[hardeeflag]

Re: Spys and Scouts

"I am reading "fagots from the campfire" right now and am enjoying it."
Rich:
I don't think I would enjoy reading anything about 'fagots' but like you I have found the study and reasearch into various "non-regular" cavalry jobs such as scouts and rangers to be fascinating.

This has nothing to do with homosexuality. This is off the UNC Documenting the American South. http://docsouth.unc.edu/fpn/dupre/dupre.html. Apparently this guy was part of Granbury's Brigade and became chief of scouts reporting to Provost Martial Ben Hill.

[Tom Ezell]

Re: Spys and Scouts

Rich:

I'm of the same thought, especially when you look into the early war accounts of units named something like "Captain So-and-so's Spy Company." As a group, these seem to have been used more in a scouting and reconnaissance mode than as regular cavalry, though they were apparently capable of performing both roles.

One of the tenets of warfare is to "see the battlefields," e.g., to have a clear picture of everything that you can keep track of within your field of operations. This includes keeping contact with the enemy, either by having your line of outposts in contact with his, or by having your scouts shadow the movements and activities of his forces, either overtly or surreptitiously. It's when you lose this sort of contact that you get surprised, often with grossly undesirable results.

The term "spy" has a definite legal definition under both civil and military law. My thoughts are that the "spy companies" of the early war era performed mostly what we would consider now the "deep battle" functions of reconnaissance and shadowing the activities of the enemy forces, coupled with some traditional cavalry roles of screening friendly forces and opportunistic raiding and harassment of Those Other Guys as may have been appropriate.