Dyed greatcoats

[Jake Nott]

I have used the search function and looked at the research articles and could not find the answer to this question, if I have overlooked it my apologies. In the uniform book Cadet Gray and Butternut Brown by Arliskas on page 65 and 66 he makes reference to Confederate troops dyeing captured Federal overecoats black. My question is how common this was and what a soldier would use for black dye? Thanks

[paulcalloway]

Re: Dyed greatcoats

Rust when ground to a powder can be used to create a deep, black dye. I'll try to find some sources for you on that, but I do recall reading that and it stuck in my mind.

[LWhite64]

Re: Dyed greatcoats

As to how common it was, dont know, Forrest issued a general order in 64 to his command that if they had US overcoats that they must be dyed, there is an original in the Alabama state museum.

Lee

[jgr1974]

Re: Dyed greatcoats

Logwood can also be used to get a deep purple or black. Iron oxide used as a mordant in the dye can help to make it darker!

Jeremy

[LWhite64]

Re: Dyed greatcoats

From what I have seen on the subject walnut dye seems to be what was used, would have been a lot easier to come by.

Lee

[Poor Private]

Re: Dyed greatcoats

In regards to a black dye, my wife says they used to use soot for a black dye. She is not sure how color fast it would be or how dark. But it may be worth a try with a sample piece of cloth.

Cris Westphal
1St Mich Volunteers

[H. L. Hanger]

Re: Dyed greatcoats

In Basil Duke's account of John H. Morgan's cavalry, he notes the dyeing of captured overcoats. As I recall it was some form of brown.

[csuniforms]

Re: Dyed greatcoats-YES and NO--

Hello, The matter of dying captured clothing came out Major-General Rosecrans' Order of February 20, 1863, stating that anyone caught in Federal Clothing would be shot-- There were some summary exections, Sam Davis for one, and another fellow from the 8th Texas Cavalry caught in Federal Clothing.

The question is how common and how were they dyed in the field, I stated an oozing vat of "rusty iron, walunts, coffee, or butternuts"-- you would need a mordant, urine??? or just let it sit for several hours. I saw an overcoat that Charlie Childs made for customer and dyed black. It looked good. This is one article of clothing we dont see that often amongst living historians. During the Nashville Campaign of 1864, lots of Confederates were wearing Federal overcoats. On the march there was no time to dye clothing. These coats were taken away from them when captured...

Tom Arliskas
Cadet Gray & Butternut Brown

[Poor Private]

Re: Dyed greatcoats

My wife went and looked through her odd notes that she keeps for her natural wool dyeing. She found that sumac berries were also used for black or near black dye. Since sumac would be in abundance in the hills and mountains of the east this may be a likely dye source as well as black walnut husks.

Cris Westphal
1st Mich. Vol.

[Tom Ezell]

Re: Dyed greatcoats

Before Miz Lawson jumps in and starts whomping on everybody with her stirring stick, an excellent reference for a project like this is J.N. Liles' The Art and Craft of Natural Dyeing, which gives a good tested recipe for just about any color you need to come up with.

http://utpress.org/a/searchdetails.php?jobno=T00228.01.05

Another thing to consider is that coats re-dyed like this were probably thrown in the vat "as is," lining and all, over-dyeing on indigo, so you would come up with a pretty catty-whompus looking coat as the end product.

[Jake Nott]

Re: Dyed greatcoats

Thanks to everyone. I will order J.N. Liles’ The Art and Craft of Natural Dyeing. Lord knows I do not want Miz Lawson to get hold of me. Once again thanks for the help.

[James the Haggard Ranger]

Re: Dyed greatcoats

This is a really overlooked subject. The time frame for Confederates in the Army of Tennessee or in Mississippi dying Federal clothing would be from October 1863 to at least April 1864. Black and Brown seem to be the colors most often described after the dyeing process. Considering how Bragg was punishing his men for disloyality by cutting their rations and other supplies, it is no wonder they took the trouble to dye captured Federal clothing.

During Hood's fall of 1864 Tennessee Campaign, there is no evidence of Confederates dying captured Federal clothing. For that matter, it was so common to see Confederates in captured Federal clothing that on several occasions Confederate infantry was easily captured by Federal cavalry during the retreat from Nashville because the Confederate infantry thought the Federal cavalry was Confederate cavalry because they were wearing sky blue overcoats. This happened to Alabama, Mississippi, and Louisiana infantry. Most of these accounts are in Wiley Sword's book.

James Wooten, Interpretive Ranger
Pickett's Mill Battlefield State Historic Site

[Becky Morgan]

Re: Dyed greatcoats

October would be a good time for butternut and black walnut hulls. I've never used butternut, but black walnut often gives a good brown. I don't know what it looks like overdyed on blue; somebody with overcoat scraps could find out easily enough. By the way, I hulled out black walnuts last fall and still have recognizable hulls on the pile, so unless the winter was especially severe it wouldn't be impossible well into January.

--Becky Morgan
(edited to correct typos)

[Spinster]

Re: Dyed greatcoats

Lawsy,

I leave town to aid in fighting a different war (Battle of New Orleans, Chalmette Parrish http://www.nps.gov/jela/battle%2Dof%...Id=78#e_109898) and the annual How do I dye a Federal great-coat black thread breaks out.

Normally this thread happens in October. We're late.

Thank you Mr. Ezell for posting the all purpose reference book--Dr. Liles researched a number of 18th and 19th century American natural dye receipts, both commerical and home processes, and converted them for ease in use.

First let me say, most emphatically--One cannot use this process to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. A sutler row grade mainstream Federal greatcoat overdyed black by this process will still not be authentically constructed. Further non-natural content in fabric (like nylon or polyester) will not take natural dyes. This is also happens if you take perfectly good wool fabric and sew it with cheap skanky poly thead---that poly thead will also not take natural dye.

End of Rant. And no reflection whatsoever on the original question, just covering all the bases while I'm here. Now, on to the process.

Orders were issued on more than one occassion instructing Confederate troops to get their captured coats dyed black.

Logwood would certainly be the best way to get this color--and it was also in short supply due to blockade, as it is of South American origin.

Thus, we turn immediately to the native dyes. This blockade dyes are normally sad, sorry substitutes for the much more sophisticated dye processes known to commerical dye houses and home dyers during the period.

Sumac is one way to attempt to get there. I have much more experience with walnut hulls and will thus address that process.

Vicki Betts wonderful newspaper articles make a number of references to these wartime shortage dyes , and the specifics are available on her site. I've got a couple of official Confederate government publications too. Goodness knows where they are right now, and the house is being rennovated. So this is the 'how to' not the chapter and verse of reference.

Hulls are soaked and simmered whether green or brown to draw out tannic acid. Better color is obtained by allowing hulls to rot to a slimy muck in barrels, over the span of a winter. About 10 gallons of thick muck should do a great coat.

Rusty iron, dissolved in strong vinegar until the vinegar is blood red makes an excellent mordant for this process. It is wise to run the solution through a muslin filter to remove any small iron filings or splinters. About 5 gallons of vinegar treated in this manner.

Soak the garment in water for 24 hours, then place in dye vat with mordant and dye and additional water. This vat should be large enough for the garment to float freely. In terms of proportion, think about a 3 year old child in a full bathtub..

Raise the temperature to a simmer over the span of an hour or so and hold it there for 3-4 hours, constantly turning and stiring the garment. About every 15 minutes , take the garment out of the vat, and swing it around in the air. This aids the tannic acid in bonding with the fabric, and with oxygen, and producing a darker color. Retun the garment to the vat and continue stirring.

After 3-4 hours, remove heat, and sink garment. Allow dyebath to cool overnight.

Rinse by soaking. Allow to dry. Check color. Depending on strength of hulls, you may need to go around again.

By the way, the whole process will smell like a running sewer.

Once you are satisfied with the color, and have rinsed well by soaking, do a final rinse with 3 gallons white vinegar added to that final soak. It will help remove the smell.

[Gallo de Cielo]

Re: Dyed greatcoats

I concur with James. I don't have the stuff in front of me, but I have a journal entry from a lad in the 9th Texas Infantry an Army of Tennessee unit which spent that winter (63-64) with Polk in Mississippi who writes us having an overcoat which has been dyed black. That doesn't speak to how common it was but I would venture that it happened a fair bit.

My two cents,