Sack Coat Fit & Sleeve Length

[Bob 125th NYSVI]

While I'm awaiting the delivery of my copy of CRRC2, I've been mulling over upgrading my impression with a new sack coat.

And one of the things that occurred to me is that CW uniforms were basically issued in 4 sizes and that each of these sizes translated into about 4 of today's modern sizes.

On top of that I'm a rather long armed cuss (36 inch sleeves) and I doubt the Army Quartermaster worried too much about unusual sizes.

So .......

If I get one of the vendor's to tailor the coat to my dimensions am I being inauthentic?

Wouldn't it have been more likely that the coat would be a little baggy (sizing me into an XL) and the sleeves a little short?

I don't remember seeing any photos of soldiers with short sleeved coats (but I do remember photos where the coat sleeves seemed too long) but then not too many of them would have weighted in at 6' 3", 230 lbs with 36" arms.

Is the a nicely tailored coat an acceptable compromise or should I be going for the sort of ill-fitting look?

[Duke20thSC]

Re: Sack Coat Fit & Sleeve Length

"Is the a nicely tailored coat an acceptable compromise or should I be going for the sort of ill-fitting look?"

I suppose it depends on what you want to do. There were tailors within companies who would sometimes alter a coat to fit. Plenty of evidence to support that. There are also plenty of pictures showing fellers with their coat sleeves well above the wrist bone. Either approach is supportable. Personally, I've bought:
- a forage cap that was a couple sizes too big;
- shoes that were too big;
- trousers too short;
- shirt too big.

On the other hand, I've taken time to tailor a few items as well for a better fit. I've done field alterations on a greatcoat to make it more functional and style it along the lines of some originals you'll see with the capes removed and pockets placed on the coat.

I have to say that "never" and "always" are words that seldom apply when talking about uniforms. I think your choice of uniform fit is just that: personal choice. Whatever makes you feel best about your impression, as long as it's historically supportable and reflects the common soldier, is probably what you should do.

I hope this "non-answer" is useful.

[ThehosGendar]

Re: Sack Coat Fit & Sleeve Length

Hi Bob!

Below is a nice side by side comparison of two different types of sacks, which look as if they were made by two seperate contractors, and issued to one company, Company B, 93rd New York (and, it looks like issued to brothers, too).

The fellow on the left looks like the jacket is fairly well fitting, with the rounded cuffs coming to just about wrist level. There isn't any real bunching of the sleeves, and the chest size is just about right. The fellow on his right is wearing a slightly varying sack, with added length to the body and squared at the bottom. The sleeves, as you can see, are bunched up and come down to the wrists. It looks as if they're a bit big.

The other image below is something I snagged off of e-bay (I think) a long time ago. If I remember, the soldier was fairly huge, and you can see the sack is dinky on him.

So, I think you have three options:

1) Go for the largest contractor size, and see what happens... if the arms are long, so be it. If not, well...

2) Go for a slightly smaller size, if you don't mind going for the Gigantor look.

3) If you think you would have had a little spending cash in your 1860s life, why not try for a private purchase tailored sack? Solves all your problems.

(Image snippet from LC-DIG-cwpb-03843, "Bealton, Virginia. Company B, 93d New York Infantry.")

[Hargis, G. 5 A-1]

Re: Sack Coat Fit & Sleeve Length

I myself have always gone for "Too Big" and either rolled up sleeves or turned under and whipped in place.
Wool being wool, I then had the where-with-all to relengthen in the face of inevitable shrinkage.
Clothing issue is the province of chance, so even after shrewd trading with you comrades you're still stuck with "making do."


(At present, I'm cannibalizing two shrunken flannel issue shirts into one wearable garment. Won't be pretty — but for modesty and undraftyness, it'll do.)


The housewife is ever the soldier's friend — this is true in, oh, so many ways.

[tomarch]

Re: Sack Coat Fit & Sleeve Length

Interesting place for the hat brass on the feller on the left....

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Sack Coat Fit & Sleeve Length

Hallo!

Nominal sleeve lengths:

Size 1: 32
Size 2: 33
Size 3: 34
Size 4: 35

However, the Federal Schuylkil Arsenal had the Special Clothing Bureau for Sizes 5-8, and special or odd "orders." However, I always wondered what the "reality" was between haivng clothes to wear and waiitng for a "special requisition" to arrive in the middle of the field. ;-)

IMHO, "making do" with issue sizes adds another dynamic element to one's impression and "Believable Image."

Others' mileage may vary...

Curt

[kevin]

Re: Sack Coat Fit & Sleeve Length

Good day to all.
I was pleasently surprised to see this post as it is the exact same question as I have been wondering about. The "inevitable shrinkage" (of the wool) has made the sleeves of my sack coat a bit short. luckily there is leftover material on the cuffs that I can bring down.
Now, to add to this question in hope of a response, what about the authenticity of sack coat linings? Were they common or did most have just the plain wool? Mine came with a lining that was way too thick and made of what seems like canvas. The jacket was always bunchy and there was way too much material in the sleeves. I felt like I was wearing a snowsuit. (which sucks in July) I have since removed the lining and the coat fits much better but I am debating having my seamstress make a new, lighter and smaller linging for my coat.
Should I bother? Any input would be greatly appreciated.

[JDR]

Re: Sack Coat Fit & Sleeve Length

I assmebled a sack coat kit a few years ago, specifically for an event. It came out looking like crap--IMO--and I was disappointed with it's appearance, not to mention a little embaressed.

While at the event, 3 different people--from other companies--complimented me on my, "issued" look. One guy even thought that I'd created, "the look", intentionally.

It made me thnk about my experience in the 20th century army. Clothes didn't fit right, then, either. So why should clothes in the 1860's fit any better?

An intentional bad fit might be something you want to consider.

Darryl Robertson

[2ndNHDOC]

Re: Sack Coat Fit & Sleeve Length

I think the theory of "one size fits none" (or four in the usual case) has a solid place. Not only in sleeve length but in fit in general. You can constantly read letters from soldiers who say ma/sis/darling I have lost x pounds since leaving home. Usually a great deal of weight. I am sure the original issues they recieved often no longer fit as they did when first issue either smaller/tighter from shrinking or bigger from weight loss.

[sedlakchristopher]

Re: Sack Coat Fit & Sleeve Length

Kevin,

Try a search on the A/C of "sack coat lining".
You may find a few threads that may answer your questions or point you in a more well researched direction.
Also, there is some great material on sack coats and linings in the "Columbia Rifles Research Compendium" both volumes I and II.

Good luck.

Chris Sedlak

[PanzerJager]

Re: Sack Coat Fit & Sleeve Length

What I find unique about the two soldiers from the 93rd NY besides the difference in the sack coats is that the guy on the right appears to have the jacket buttoned at the top yet there doesn't appear to be a button. The hole is clearly there but not button through it yet you can see the jacket is closed and there is a "pull" in the fabric as if fastened creating the scalloped looked.

Perhaps a hook and eye attachment?

Regards,

[johnf1862]

Re: Sack Coat Fit & Sleeve Length

Image is pretty much self explanitory. Unfortunately I don't have the LOC number or any information on this one...I had it saved in my files unlabeled.

[Bob 125th NYSVI]

Re: Sack Coat Fit & Sleeve Length

I agree that there are plenty of images of coats too big for soldiers but in my case I'm much larger than the average soldier was so it, I think, would be unlikely that the Army had coats too big for me.

Does anyone have a photo of a soldier wearing a coat too small?

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Sack Coat Fit & Sleeve Length

Hallo!

Let's see if I remember how to post images...



Curt

[PanzerJager]

Re: Sack Coat Fit & Sleeve Length

Does anyone have a photo of a soldier wearing a coat too small?

Bob,

Are you able to view the images in this thread? The image in the post previous to your last clearly shows a coat to small for the man wearing it, as well as the photograph that was posted earlier in the thread from ebay, it was in the same post as the soldier’s from the 93rd NY.

There are many accounts both written and photographic of soldiers receiving a coat issued to small for them.

Regards,