Identified Enfield Cartridge Box

[Pritchett Ball]

I ran across this British Enfield Cartridge Box...

http://www.sharpsburg-arsenal.com/Identified_Items/identified_items.html

http://www.sharpsburg-arsenal.com/Identified_Items/L195_ID_d_Enfield_cartridge_bo/l195_id_d_enfield_cartridge_bo.html

I'm not a cartridge box expert… (I'm lucky to have an excellent reproduction Enfield box)
What caught my attention was the closing tab shown with sewing on the OUTSIDE of the outer flap!

Is this something out of the ordinary?
Respectfully:

Kevin Dally

[1stMaine]

Re: Identified Enfield Cartridge Box

Kevin,

here's a copy of the email I sent to the fellow with this box:

----------------------------------

Hello,

I have some reservations regarding the legitimacy of the provenance on the English pattern cartridge box you have listed. The problem comes with the first ID to that of a soldier of the 15th Massachussetts.

Extant records regarding issue to the Mass regiments (Mass AG reports and Master of Arms reports contained therein) show that the 15th was issued entirely with sets of American pattern accoutrements.

Certainly, the 46th Mass was entirely issued with English accoutrements, with the exception of the bayonet scabbard. The 46th was armed with the M1841 (Mississippi) Springfield rifle, with the bayonet and attachment made by AJ Drake, of Massachusetts, which required a custom scabbard due to the length of the bayonet. These issues are also bourne out by the referenced articles.

I would have no problem accepting the 46th Mass issue for this box, but the 15th Mass association is problematic at best. I don't have an answer for you, only what my personal research has uncovered regarding issuances of English pattern accoutrements to mass regiments.

Trusting this finds you and yours well and prospering, i remain,

----------------------------------------

For what it's worth, I also have some reservation regarding the white buff closure tab, seeing how extant images of issued boxes to mass regiments show black or brown closure tabs, matching the color of the box.....

Not accusing anyone of anything here, just sayin'.....

Respects,

[Enfield]

Re: Identified Enfield Cartridge Box

I can't remark on the possible IDs, but the box looks good to me. Boxes in the Guards Museum in London had these features (what I could see on the outside), and the original that Jarnagin based their repro of the early 80s on was a dead ringer for this box (I saw this original box at Jarnagin's once ... IMHO, their Enfield box of ca. 1982 was one of the best leather repros they ever made). Of course, there were many variations and detail differences on period British cartridge boxes.

Regards,

Geoff Walden

[1stMaine]

Re: Identified Enfield Cartridge Box

Geoff,

I agree completely about the authenticity of the box. It is an excellent example, and one which would look good in any collection.

My only concern was for the identification. My own research shows that the 15th received full sets of American Pattern gear, so how this individual would have had access to this box is a conundrum. The 46th Mass ID is okay, and this would match issues of English gear to that regiment.

Regarding the white flap closure tab, that is correct, I fully agree. However, looking at images of the Mass boxes, they seem to have closure tabs of the same shade as the box. I'm not saying that this ISN'T one of Massachusett's boxes, just that it seems odd to try and reconcile the ID discrepensies with the image of the item on the website.

BTW: Are you still doing Berlin Tours?????????

Respects,

[Pritchett Ball]

Re: Identified Enfield Cartridge Box

Tim:

I appreciate your post on the question of provenance, I always hope that when posting, you find out things you didn't even ask for, or consider. Naturally your post leaves me questions about what Massachusetts Units received British accoutrements, and did they use them all through the war? (I'm ALWAYS asking questions because of this hobby… )

Geoff…

Would first ask where the heck are you now…and how ya doing! ( At LEAST how are you DOING?)
Am most grateful for your observations of originals you have seen, especially those across the Atlantic. Didn’t know that Jarnagin had their Enfield box reproduction way back in 82.
There are reproduction Enfield Boxes out there that have the stitching showing through the front flap, and I always counted them as cheap repros. This one caught my eye, because of the stitching, being the first original one I had seen with this feature.
Respectfully:

Kevin Dally

[1stMaine]

Re: Identified Enfield Cartridge Box

Kevin,

See this thread:

http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9504

I have a couple posts in there that list the Mass regts that recieved full or partial sets of English accoutrements.

It's a pet subject of mine:)

Respects,

[Enfield]

Re: Identified Enfield Cartridge Box

Hi Tim, Kevin,

I am back in the States now ... so no more Germany tours :cry_smile . Kept busy over here, though ... they make sure I get my perennial Iraq "vacation".

Regards to all,

Geoff Walden

[1stMaine]

Re: Identified Enfield Cartridge Box

Comrades,

So, after knocking emails back and forth, there has developed a concern over the first ID on this box. The gentleman in question enlisted in the 15th Mass when that regiment was first mustered in, and was later discharged for disability in July, 1862, nearly a month before Massachusetts even began to issue the English pattern accoutrements.

The 1st issue of these sets (both whole and partial) did not begin until after the 7 August call from Lincoln for another round of volunteers. At that time the state had nearly exhausted it's supply of American pattern accoutrements, so it decided to start issuing the English patterns. The 15th was NOT among those who drew these sets, and because of it's muster into Federal service, any replacment items would have been from the Federal government, which only issued US pattern equipment.

Additionally, the second name belongs to a soldier of the 46th Mass. THAT regiment was part of the post-August 7 call-up, and received English accoutrements (except for the scabbard). What calls this into question is how a man from this unit could be issued a box that had been issued to another unit, which unit received only American pattern equipment, and was still serving in the front when the 46th was mustered in. Even considering the ID to the 15th Mass soldier, he would've had to have been issued the box, written his name and unit inside it, turned it into the state for reuse, and all this before ANY English pattern equipment had been issued.

Something isn't right here...

Anyway, here's the geneology of the 15th Mass private who alledgedly was issued this box.

-----------------------

George F. Simonds
b. 12 Jun 1842, d. Oct 1894

Father Abel Simonds b. 10 Dec 1804, d. 22 Apr 1875
Mother Jane Todd b. ca. 1810, d. 24 Jun 1886

Reference B

Birth* George F. Simonds was born on 12 Jun 1842 at Fitchburg, Worcester County, Massachusetts, son of Abel Simonds and Jane Todd, grandson of Joseph and Sarah (Downe) Simonds.
(Witness) Census1850 George F. Simonds was enumerated in the household of Abel Simonds and Jane Todd in the 1850 US Federal Census on 16 Aug 1850 at Fitchburg, Worcester County, Massachusetts, enumerated as follows:
Abel Simonds, 45, sythe manufacture, b. MA (as were all the children)
Jane T., 39, b. NH
Joseph F., 21, engineer
Mary D., 17
Thomas F., 16, sythe maker
William H. Simonds, 13
John, 11
**Alvin A., 9
**George F., 7
Elizabeth J., 5
Daniel, 2
Edwin F. 7/12.
Bro_coz* George F. Simonds and Alvan Augustus Simonds, brothers, served together in the 15th Massachusetts Volunteer Infantry in Co. B.
Living* In 1862 George was living at Fitchburg, Worcester County, Massachusetts.
Occu1861* At the time of his enlistment in the 15th Massachusetts Volunteer Infantry, in 1862, George gave his occupation as machinist.
15th_Mustr* On 22 Jan 1862 George mustered into service with the 15th Massachusetts Volunteer Infantry, being credited to the quota of Fitchburg, Worcester County, Massachusetts. He was 19 years, 7 months and 10 days old.
15th_End* On 18 Jul 1862 George ended military service with the 15th Massachusetts due to disability.
(DeathPar) Death On 14 Aug 1863 his of disease while serving with the 53rd Massachusetts Volunteer Infantry (under Col. John W. Kimball, formerly of the 15th Mass.), William Henry Simonds, died at Ft. Schuyler, New York, his brother at age 27.
Marriage* George F. Simonds married Mary D. A. [--?--].
(DeathFat) Death On 22 Apr 1875 his father, Abel Simonds, died at Fitchburg, Worcester County, Massachusetts, at age 70.
Census1880* George F. Simonds and Mary D. A. [--?--] were enumerated in the 1880 US Federal census on 5 Jun 1880 at Fitchburg, Worcester County, Massachusetts, enumerated as follows:
Simonds, George F., 37, saw manufacture, b. MA, fath b. MA, more b. R.I: ?? smudged
---, Mary D., 37, wife, b. MA
---, Florence, 12, dau
---, Walter, 8, son
Meehan, Mary, 25, servant, b. MA (of Irish parents).
Census1890V* George F. Simonds was enumerated in the 1890 US Federal census, Veteran's Schedule in Jun 1890 at Fitchburg, Worcester County, Massachusetts, as having served in the 15th Massachusetts Volunteer Infantry, Co. B.
Death* He died in Oct 1894 . He was 52 years and 3 months old.
Pens_Surv* On 27 May 1904 Mary D. A. [--?--] received a pension to surviving family member in Massachusetts based on George's service; and received certificate number 615127.

Family Mary D. A. [--?--] (excluded)
Marriage* George F. Simonds married Mary D. A. [--?--].
Children Florence Simonds (excluded)
Walter Simonds (excluded)


-------------------

Respects,

[artillerist]

Re: Identified Enfield Cartridge Box

Hello Gentlemen,

I would like to add a relevant post to this thread if I may, as I have long appreciated the research and educational opportunities at times offered via the AC Forum website. I also emailed this information to Tim Kindred several days ago (have yet to hear back from him), but wanted to share it with the larger AC community, as I believe the additional research regarding this Enfield cartridge box would prove beneficial to a wider audience. Based on my exchanges of emails with Tim Kindred within the last month or so, and also based on his previous postings which I have read, I believe him to be a serious student of arms and equipage, and one who "worships" at the same church of objective research as do I (and as does Bill Adams, and as does Michael Schaffner, and as does Tim Prince).

I have "kept tabs" on this Massachusetts Enfield cartridge box for some years, and when it once again came on the market, decided to move on it. I purchased this box from Don Stoops/Sharpsburg Arsenal some weeks ago with the right of return within a three-day examination period, of course. My research has resulted in some new and significant findings.

First, I am very pleased with the Enfield cartridge box. Having examined the box itself now firsthand, and having discussed the box in detail with two other gentleman (other than the dealer) who are experienced in the field and who are both familiar with and who both have previously personally examined the same box, there is no doubt now in my mind (nor theirs) that the inscriptions are indeed period and that they are those of two separate Massachusetts infantrymen.

As you may recall from past postings and from an examination of the box when it was featured on the web site, there are two separate "pairs" of two separate Mass. soldiers' inscriptions on this Enfield cartridge box.

Let me discuss the results of my additional research since receiving, carefully examining, and further researching the inscriptions on the Enfield Mass. ID'd box itself.

I have carefully examined and analyzed the inscriptions on the box. Both of the "Simonds" inscriptions (he has two, one on the outside of the outer flap and one on the inside of the outer flap) appear to be in "copperplate" script, a common and perhaps dominant cursive writing style of the mid 19th Century. The outer inscription is relatively clear under natural light or artificial light angled properly, with the inner one less so but nonetheless discernable. The "Sackett" inscription is in two places also as you may recall ... the one in charcoal or pencil is the most obvious, but a second one is represented by a parallel set of three initials of "ADS" inscribed/cut in a cursive fashion (also of the copperplate script style) on the inner flap of the box literally underneath the larger charcoaled or penciled "A D Sackett 46 MASS".

I have determined, based on the period copperplate cursive style of three of the four sets of period script inscriptions (the fourth inscription is printed and not cursive), that the "Simonds" inscriptions were not that of G.F. Simonds of the 15th Mass. Inf., but instead that of C.F. Simonds of the 6th Mass. Inf.

C. F. Simonds was in the 6th Regiment, Massachusetts Infantry (100 days, 1864) (Militia) ... Organized at Readville and mustered in July 14-19, 1864. Left State for Washington, D. C., July 20, arriving there July 22. Assigned to garrison duty at Fort C. F. Smith on Arlington Heights till August 21. Moved to Fort Delaware on Pea Patch Island, relieving 157th Ohio Infantry from guard duty. Guarding Rebel prisoners there till October 19. Moved to Boston October 19-21. Mustered out October 27, 1864.

I don't know how much individual readers may know about copperplate script, but in this period cursive style the capital "S" looks a great deal like a capital "L", and a capital "G" does not look anything like a capital "G" in later cursive or printed styles. I believe this cursive capital letter "C" representing the first letter of Simonds' first name has previously been incorrectly interpreted as a more modern type of printed or cursive "G" ... which it clearly is not if one studies the copperplate writing style of capital letters. The initial capital letter is a cursive "C" complete with flourishes top and bottom, as is the rest of the name in cursive copperplate ... middle initial "F" and last name of "Simonds" ... with the capital "S" in "Simonds" looking more like what an "L" would look like in more modern cursive style. The copperplate cursive capital "C" has apparently been mistaken as a type of printed (or cursive) "G", thus erroneously resulting in previously attributing one of the two IDs to "G.F. Simonds" of the 15th Mass. Inf., instead of "C.F. Simonds" or Charles F. Simonds of the 6th Mass. Inf. (Volunteer Militia 100 day unit with term of service July '64 to Oct. '64).

This also would dovetail chronologically with the 46th Mass. Inf. term in the war of Sept. '62 to July '63. After the 46th Mass. term had expired in July '63, its arms and equipage would have most likely been sent back to Massachusetts for reuse/reissue to other Mass regiments. With the 6th Mass. Vol. Militia not organizing until July '64, it would have been a plausible unit to receive some of the 46th Mass. equipage.

The copperplate style of script/cursive inscription is confirmed by one of the two sets of the second Mass. soldiers' inscriptions ... that is the "carved in leather" initials "A.D.S." which are clearly of the copperplate style and clearly refer to A.D. Sackett of the 46th Mass. Inf., who also penciled/charcoaled his full printed name as well on the inner flap of the Enfield cartridge box, having owned/used the box before C.F. Simonds of the 6th Mass. Inf.

I have run my research regarding the copperplate script nature of the relevant cursive inscription by several separate individuals who are objective in their analyses, and have no reason to be otherwise. One of these gentlemen is AC member Michael Schaffner, who is uniquely qualified to opine on the matter due to both his research into Civil War Quartermaster rules and regulations as well as his familiarity with cursive writing styles of the period. We discussed the matter in an exchange of some emails within the past week or so, and his conclusions are supportive. Schaffner says, "I've looked at a fair number of period writing samples and agree with your conclusion. From what I can see of the incision in the photograph, it looks very much like a C and not at all like a G."

I later had the chance to take a digital photo in natural daylight of the C.F. Simonds outer flap inscription, and shared that image with Michael Schaffner. (Regrettably, I am unable to share any images on the AC Forum, apparently due to the infrequency of my postings. I am more of a reader than a poster, I suppose.) The image evidenced a top "loop" or "flourish" on the capital "C", with a more pronounced "loop" or "flourish" at the bottom of this capital letter ... and demonstrated that the letter therefore is a capital cursive "C" in the copperplate style of script.

Having sent this new image of the inscription to Michael Schaffner, he replied that he continued to concur with my analyses and conclusions. See his remarks below:

"Oh, yes -- definitely. I was in agreement before, but I think this nails it. That's certainly a capital C, not a G, and it really goes with the capital F and the older-style capital S. It also strikes me that, while you could argue perhaps that someone could add a stencil or inked inscription after the fact, this scratching had to be done when the box was relatively unworn, or it would have flaked off some of the finish. I'm no expert, but it looks like you made quite a find. Thanks again for sharing; I've learned some things. The story of your piece provides not just an interesting history of a particular article of ordnance, but an insight into how these were stored, issued, and reissued."

I also ran my research by Tim Prince (AC member, proprietor of College Hill Arsenal and a member of The Company of Military Historians). He replied as follows: "Thanks for sharing your research and your photos of the box. I wonder how often people get things like this wrong due to their lack of knowledge of handwriting of the time. This is further proof that anyone who is a student of material culture of the era needs to be well versed in all facets of the era, including those that seem to have nothing to do with the military. I am firmly convinced that you have a very righteous box. If you have the time, I think the story of the acquisition and the re-identification of the owners would be a great article for North-South Trader. One of those "this is what we thought, this is what we discovered" type articles. Thanks for letting me know how it all worked out."

Next I ran my research by the individual who owned the box for 15 years before selling it at a high-end auction several years ago (along with most of the rest of his collection) to help pay for the cost of his daughter's education. His name is John Ockerbloom, and he is an advanced collector whose artifacts have been featured in various well-known books and publications. He replied, "Congrads. I think you've got this one solved. Good homework. I should have attempted that "CF" route back when I owned it, as I had many items from the 6th Mass too. The large Tintype photo I sent you the other day is the 6th. This was the twin image to the one Howie used in his famous N/S Trader article, just slight differences between the two. This image sold in my sale too. I've attached another image I own of the 6th Mass. I had at one time about 30+ CDV's for the 6th. Several with gear. I'm glad this box is in a good spot and you'll enjoy it for years to come."

Last, but certainly not least, I ran my research my Bill Adams, who is perhaps the foremost authority on Civil War Enfields and English accoutrements in the country today. I have been corresponding with Bill since the early 1990s, and he also concurred with the results of my research.

In addition, research indicates that Massachusetts Enfield cartridge boxes were unique among Civil War-used Enfield cartridge boxes in that they were altered somewhat after being received from England and before being issued to Mass. infantry regiments. It is noteworthy that this particular Enfield cartridge box bears all of the unique characteristics and hallmarks of such an altered Massachusetts box.

Finally, this means that Tim Kindred may in fact turn out to be right about the issuance of U.S. cartridge boxes to the 15th Mass., although I must add in all objectivity that we still do not have enough information on that matter (which is now irrelevant) to ultimately decide one way or the other. There still appears to be some 2,481+ "unaccounted for" Mass. Enfield cartridge boxes given away from Cambridge stores after Dec. 24, 1861 but before Dec. 31, 1862. Given that, at this point we have no way of knowing which of the remaining Mass. regiments received how many Enfield cartridge boxes between these two dates. Regardless of how that turns out, however, it now appears to be a moot point.

I submit this research as an indication that it is always dangerous to jump to conclusions regarding corroborating or refuting an alleged provenance on an artifact before all of the information can be gleaned from that particular artifact and before all of the appropriate analyses of evidence can be conducted. From all indications, and from all empirical evidence available, this Enfield cartridge box is indeed a Massachusetts-issued Enfield cartridge box, and the two sets of separate inscriptions are indeed authentic and valid inscriptions from two separate Massachusetts infantrymen from two separate Massachusetts infantry regiments … who happened to have been issued and used the box at disparate times during the war.

Thanks to the AC Forum for making this avenue of communication available through which relevant and beneficial research may be shared.

Best regards,

Mike Bailey