Battle of the Bobbins

[CJDaley]

The South: 150 textile factories
The North: 900 textile factories

The South: 2,000 persons employed in the manufacture of clothing
The North: 100,000 persons employed in the manufacture of clothing

Source: Commager, Henry S., Defeat of the Confederacy, A Documentary Survey (1964)

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Re: Battle of the Bobbins

I'm assuming that these numbers do not reflect contract work subbed out to local mills and part-time employees. It would be my assumption that these numbers would be based on full-time government contracted mills and shops.


Does Mr. Commanger supply decent references in his bibliography?


Paul B. Boulden Jr.

RAH VA MIL '04
23rd VA Regt.

[CJDaley]

Re: Battle of the Bobbins

Good question.

While I don't think these numbers are limited to just government contracts, I do think the number probably isn't 100% accurate. You'll never be able to account for home grown production and such, but the book and others like it which contain similar numbers are very well documented.

There are other fascinating numbers like 1/4 the production capacity of the State of NY equaled the production capacity of the entire South.

[Hank Trent]

Re: Battle of the Bobbins

I was also wondering more about the implications of the figures. If those figures were about the same just before trade broke off, it would seem to imply that there was a significant export of textiles and clothing from the north to the south, to balance out production with population.

Textiles, yes, I could see that. Shoes and men's ready-made clothing too, maybe. But was the gap really that wide?

Home production of textiles was virtually over in the north, but was it still significant enough in the south to make up any of the difference?

What about home production of clothing? If the bulk of ready-made clothing was for men, did the home manufacture of male slaves' clothing make any difference?

I'm just wondering if there was more manufacturing of clothing and textiles in the south that wouldn't show up in those statistics, due to the cultural differences in how things were produced.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[CJDaley]

Re: Battle of the Bobbins

I'm just wondering if there was more manufacturing of clothing and textiles in the south that wouldn't show up in those statistics, due to the cultural differences in how things were produced.

Yes.

These ain't my numbers and I haven't nothing to gain/lose by posting them. I just thought they were an interesting starting point for a discussion on the production capacity of both nations during the war.

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Re: Battle of the Bobbins

Chris,

My intent was not to discredit your figures, but only to try and better understand where they came from. Although 2,000 people would seemingly be a very large number of people, it really is not. For example in the military command of the Richmond Shops alone, I would expect several Officers and NCO’s who would only be involved in management and some small level of Q/A. While I do not know the exact structure of the Quartermaster COC…I would expect it to be similar to that of the other branches in structure and organization.

When reading some of the newspaper articles from the Richmond Whig and Enquirer, there are several accounts of hundreds of women standing in line (reminiscent of industry during the Great Depression) trying to get work. Some of these accounts describe how women whose husbands were serving were given priority for work over those women whose were not.

Considering that the Crenshaw Woolen Mills in Richmond had several hundred employees for that single mill, I would conclude that a figure of 2,000 workers would not include the production of raw goods.

I will look for some articles to post when I get home tonight, unless Scott Hanes beats me to it.:D

Very interesting discussion, and those of us who only do this as a hobby certainly appreciate the time that the professionals take to start these enlightening conversations.


Paul B. Boulden Jr.

RAH VA MIL '04
23rd VA Regt.

[CJDaley]

Re: Battle of the Bobbins

My intent was not to discredit your figures, but only to try and better understand where they came from.

I totally understand and given the date of the published number, I'm sure we've learned much more in the last 4 decades.

[Dan Wambaugh]

Re: Battle of the Bobbins

All,

I think that home production certainly made a huge difference in the south. The number of extant homemade garments still in existence today as well as countless first hand accounts and letters asking for items from home belie a society where it was considered the norm to make your own.

Furthermore, the CS central government through its commutation system used early on was obviously of the opinion that the homemade garment industry could support the army's clothing needs (for awhile at least.) This broke down eventually for a number of reasons, but the idea that the folks at home could directly support the clothing needs of the army at the front was certainly a huge vote of confidence in the citizens of the country.

Without getting bogged down in the numbers and their specific inclusions and exclusions, I think that the general trend is toward two very different types of society. We all know about the agrarian South vs. industrial North issues, and I think that this is an excellent example of those differences.

I think that one of the most important things to take away from this discussion is how extraordinary it is that the burden of uniform supply was placed upon the citizens of the confederacy. Of course now we look back on the commutation system as a major failure, but I think even more amazing than that is that for awhile at least it actually worked, and that is a major testament to the southern people!

Just a couple of thoughts for a sunny Friday afternoon.


Best,

Dan

[Richmond Depot]

Re: Battle of the Bobbins

[QUOTE=Stonewall_Greyfox;59460]

I will look for some articles to post when I get home tonight, unless Scott Hanes beats me to it.:D QUOTE]

Paul, I'm going to let you have the honor of finding the citations. It's been a few months now since you've had any homework. Sssssh, I won't tell your Tac officer.:tounge_sm

[tmattimore]

Re: Battle of the Bobbins

From the 1860 cencsus 75% of the tanneries in the north with 90% of the invested capital in the north From the 1845 Mass. economic cencsus the town of Randolph Mass. alone turned out one million pair of boots and shoes per year, before the invention and distribution of the sewing machine.
Most of the shoes sold in the south pre-war were made in New England. Many factories had shoe and boot stores through out the south. There were almost no pattern duplicating lathes in the south. (needed to make shoe lasts and musket stocks). In the 1850's one shop in Lynn Mass. turned out a production of 400,000 pair of lasts per year with 3 employees. Other heavy machinery for the leather trades was unheard of in the south. See the Cuningham letterr and you can see the joy he shows from obtaining one punch press for cutting out soles. Most New England factories subcontracted this to specialized makers with multiple sole cutting press. The Planetary sole cutter was also in use in the north by the 1850's which could cut a dozen soles at one time from a stack and could also be changed to cut different sizes in a matter of minutes.
By the end of the war there were over 70 Blake sole stitchers in use in the north each capable of turning out 200 pair in a 12 hour shift.
I belive but have not confirmed it that there was not a single maker of sewing machines or sewing machine needles in the south. While Wheeler and Wilson machines were so common in factories most were used to produce civlian foot wear
Tom

[Hank Trent]

Re: Battle of the Bobbins

I belive but have not confirmed it that there was not a single maker of sewing machines or sewing machine needles in the south.

May I nominate George B. Sloat's company in Richmond? And also John H. Lester of the same city?

from Vicki Betts' newspaper archive:

MEMPHIS DAILY APPEAL [MEMPHIS, TN], June 8, 1861, p. 2, c. 6
Home Manufacture of Percussion Caps. We have been shown a sample of percussion caps made at the Sloat sewing machine manufactory at Richmond, Va., which will compare favorably with any percussion caps heretofore manufactured in this country or Europe.—N. O. paper.

From http://www.richmonddepot.com/researc...neDispatch.htm

Nov. 10, 1860

Sewing Machines.
Sloat's celebrated Elliptic Lock stitch Sewing Machines are now manufactured by the Union manufacturing Company,
(Late Lester manufacturing Company,) of Richmond, Va., and are for sale at store no. 231 Main street. These Machines, of home manufacture, are warranted the best in use. Please call and examine them.

From the same site, in a Dec. 8, 1860 article:

The Union Manufacturing Company is another large concern, which promises to be of great benefit to Richmond. It manufactures sewing machines, of approved and popular styles, in the most admirable manner, and at cheap prices. It also makes planing machines of an improved pattern, and steam engines, and among the last named a style of small engine that is very useful. This establishment was one of the effects of the John Brown raid. It was gotten up with a large capital — planned on a liberal scale, and has gone into operation with a great deal of spirit — and thus far with admirable success. The company recently effected a favorable arrangement with Mr. Sloat, of Philadelphia, who had matured a beautiful and excellent machine, and that gentleman has removed his entire force to Richmond, adding it, and his own ingenuity and skill, and energy in business, to the previous means and capabilities of the company. Thus we have an establishment of great capacity, and one that is destined to contribute much to the growth of Richmond, as well as Southern manufacturing independence

From the same site. Things didn't turn out so well for Lester.

July 26, 1864

John H Lester, citizen, who for some time previous to the war was engaged in the manufacture of sewing machines in Richmond, was charged with manufacturing arms for the enemies of the United States, giving information and endeavoring to give aid and comfort to the enemy, and treasonable and disloyal conduct. The Court sentenced him "to be confined at hard labor, with ball and chain, at such place as the commanding General shall direct, for the period of ten years, and to forfeit all property in the hands of Captain Cassels, Provost Marshal, to the Government of the United States."

These barbarous sentences are now doubtless being carried into execution.

I believe Sloat was connected with the Elliptic style of stationary bobbin lockstitch machines, and Lester may have manufactured them as well.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Re: Battle of the Bobbins

A review of the 1860 Richmond Business Directory list several Sewing Machine companies in Richmond City, VA. While I am not sure whether these were just retail/repair shops or also manufacturing operations, they were present in Richmond prior to the war.

The Directory List the following Sewing Machine Shops in 1860 Richmond, VA:

Groyer & Baker, S.W. Clapp, ag't, Mechanics' Institute Building.
Ladd, Webster & Co's, P. Horton Keach, ag't, 212 Main.
Lester's, P.H. Keach, ag't, 212 Main.
Old Dominion, S. Hoffman, ag't, 12 bt Main and Franklin.
Singer's, M.A. Stearns, ag't, Main bt 7th and 8th.
Wheeler & Wilson's, E.H. Craige, ag't, Main bt 8th & 9th.
Willcox & Gibb's, Darby & Johnson, ag'ts, Governor, bt Main and Franklin.

It's a common misconception that the South lacked the capacity to produce products in mass on it's own. While I am sure that we may not have had the large industrial operations of the North (albeit the Tredegar complex must have been an exception....Flower Mill, Iron & Bronze works, Woolen mills....) I think its an unfair assumption to say that the production level was poor.

Even if the South imported vast quantities of shoes from Northern industry prior to the war, it is questionable to say the majority came so. Most of the country (North and South) being rural, a vast majority of goods (shoes) certainly had to be produced on a local level.

Interestingly enough, the Business Directory also list the Shoemakers and Boot-Makers:

Albert, J. B., Brook av bt Duval and Baker.
Atkinson, James, Broad bt 25th and 26th.
Bauman, C., n e cor Franklin and 7th.
Beck, Fred’k, Main bt 20th and 21st.
Behle, Chas., Broad bt 2d and 3d.
Brandt, E., cor Jefferson and Broad.
Brithitto, Levy, Main bt 20th and 21st.
Brunner, Rich’d, 15th bt Main and Cary.
Butler, Thos., Cary bt 13th and Virginia.
Cabbott, D. L., Lester, bt Bath and Royal.
Devoto, Philip, Main bt 23d and 24th.
Ebenhack, John, 17th bt Main and Cary.
Favier, V. A., Governor bt Main and Franklin.
Freitag, G., Front bt Hughes and Royal.
Franceschi, Francis, 12th bt Main and Cary.
Ganzert, M., Brook av nr Leigh.
Goinzret, Fred’k, Franklin bt 14th and Mayo.
Hobman, G. H., Cary bt 17th and 18th.
John, F., 17th bt Grace and Broad.
Judah, B. W., 3d bt Broad and Grace.
Kaufman, Leyser, Main bt 19th and 20th.
Knatz, Henry, Cary bt 14th and 15th.
Knolle, Wm., 18th bt Main and Cary.
Know, Henry, 2d bt Jackson and Duval.
Koss, August, 3d bt Jackson and Duval.
Krug, Wendlin, Broad bt Smith and Munford.
Loher, Geo. P., 10th bt Main and Cary.
Long, Jno., Broad, bt Jefferson and Madison.
Lowe, J. D., Wall bt Main and Franklin.
Luckado, James, Broad bt Mayo and 15th.
Maisch, G., 326 Broad.
Messerschmidt, J., Broad bt Jefferson and
Madison.
Minson, D. H., Venable bt 18th and 19th.
Mitchell, C., 2d bt Duval and Jackson.
Moebus, Jacob, 6th bt Clay and Marshall.
Neagle, B., Main bt 18th and 19th.
Page, W. C., 18th bt Franklin.
Roane, Wm., Union bt Franklin and Grace.
Sexton, John, 17th bt Broad and Marshall.
Sluter, H., Cary bt 6th and 7th.
Spalding, F. B., 13th bt Main and Cary.
Straehla, H., Broad bt Foushee and Adams.
Sullivn, Pat., Main bt 20th and 21st.
Tyndall, Jno., 14th bt Main and Cary.

Boots and Shoes.
Anthony, J. H., Cary nr 13th.
Bachrach, I. A., cor 5th and Broad.
Boschen, J. H., Broad bt 5th and 6th.
Carlton, Chamberlain & Co., 111 Main.
Deufel, Geo., Broad bt 6th and 7th.
Dorsam, L., Main bt 19th and 20th.
Fleischman, L., Broad bt 3d and 4th.
Fleckenstein, W., Front bt Hughes and Royal.
Franklin, D. B., 215 Broad.
Frinay, Geo., Broad bt 6th and 7th.
Hardingham, A., Broad bt 2d and 3d.
Harris, Isaac, Brook av nr Broad.
Harris, Marcus & Bro., cor Main and 11th.
Harwood, Wm. J., 7 Main.
Heine, F., Main bt 18th and 19th.
Heisz, C., Broad bt 6th and 7th.
Heller, G. & Co., Broad bt 5th and 6th.
Hill, A. & Co., 127 Main.
Kirschlegel, Ed., cor 5th and Broad.
Lasfargue, M., 14th bt Main and Franklin.
Lichtenstein, L., Franklin bt 17th and 18th.

The 1860 Richmond Business Directory can be found on Mr. Mike Gorman's Civil War Richmond Site: http://www.mdgorman.com/Written%20Ac...0Directory.htm

More to come later this weekend.

Paul B. Boulden Jr.

RAH VA MIL '04

[Richmond Depot]

Re: Battle of the Bobbins

Outstanding Info. Paul.

[ElizabethClark]

Re: Battle of the Bobbins

Mr. ************, your image appears to relate to British textile manufacturing--which is something like 50 years ahead of mill-scale textile manufacturing in either the North or the South of the US. I don't know that comparing British industry to US industry in a discussion of US regional differences is terrible useful... did I miss a US image or link?

[tmattimore]

Re: Battle of the Bobbins

A company sized detachment of shoemakers does not an army shoe.
" From the Randolph Transcript 9-12-1857
" Boston is now the largest shoe market in the world and her sales exceed by millions of dollars those of any other city on the globe. There are 218 wholesale and jobbing boot, shoe and leather dealers in Boston whose gross sales anounted to $34,000,000. Of the shoe houses 4 do a business of over $1,000,000 annually.......38 do a businees of over $200,000 annually."

The 1860 U.S. cencsus give a higher figure of $50,000,000.

The 1855 Mass. Ecomonmic cencus figures show of the 80,000 persons employed in the state 32,000 were shoemakers.
From "The Orginazation of the Boot and Shoe Trade in Mass. before 1875" The Randolph Bank paid a 5% dividend and had a clear surplus of $47,016.72
Randolph had a population of 5,538 people 1000 of whom worked in the shoe trades.
1860 cencsus figures show Lynn Mass. manufacturing $4,750,000 worth of shoes per year. Philadelphia $5,500,000 per year Haverhill Mass. $4,000,000 per year.
1855 Mass Economic census figures show the town of Natick Mass. making 1,281,295 pair of shoes and 570 pair of boots with 1,070 males employed and 497 females One firm the Walcott co made 97,920 pair of brogans in 1854.

From the Lynn Historical Society archives from the papers of Robinson&Co 1848
Accounts Rec'ble $18,518.74
Accounts Payable $11,140
This was a small company that had 250 pair of lasts and four sewing machines but the profits were large.

The shoe and boot industry of Mass. began exporting to the Carribean and south america around 1800. To Australia before 1840 by 1850 it had out stripped the production of England. To think that an industry that exported globaly would not seek market share at home is to miss the point of capitalism. The southern Quartermasters performed miracles to keep an army in the field but the numbers don't add up. For example from the payroll of the Richmond depot 30 piece workers drew pay on march 5 1863 for a total of 563 pair of shoes finished and 131 dozen uppers sewn for a total of $1601 in payroll. The march 21 payroll shows 10 persons employed by the day with 1 supervisor and 9 shoe cutters for a total payroll of $230.

The Sewing Machine trust does not show any sewing machine makers in the south but they allowed shops to assemble and place their own names on machines provided the parts were purchased from trust members.