Firing by The Drum

[Todd Watts]

Re: Firing by The Drum

A quote or reference would be good. I think a lot of soldiers failed to make minute detail mentions of such things that were so ordinary that they didn't consider writing about it though. If a mention was made, we just have to hope it survived this long and hope somewhere it was published or posted on the net for us. The military institutes were in the practice of teaching a lot of European tactics, and the officers corps and musician corps would have been taught these things. These things could very well have been passed down to the recruit musicians in camps of instruction that way, even if a French or Prussian manual of music would not have been found in the possession of the 4th Arkansas' illiterate drummers or buglers.;)

I'll ask the rangers I know if they know any more about this. Perhaps they'll pull some fantastic tidbit of long lost lore out of the archives. Perhaps, they will say "you know, we don't know why we have demonstrated this either" and get them to researching to correct themselves.

[Spongebucket]

Re: Firing by The Drum

I must agree with Mr. Samp. The only military references I have seen to the use of firing by the drum is in the drill. And even that for nothing bigger than maybe a company.
Just my 2 pennies
Joe Blunt

[john duffer]

Re: Firing by The Drum

It's isn't combat and it's not firing but it does have a drum in it. Scott's Military Compendium 1820:

52. The instructor causes the fire of the independent files to cease, by a roll or ruffle of the drum; at the beginning of which the firing will cease. ……..
53. The ruffle shall, always be followed by a tap of the drum, and, at this signal, the captain, as also the covering sergeant, shall, quickly, resume their places in line …..
54. If there is no drum, the instructor shall order the fire to cease, by repeating the word ruffle, as if directing the same to be beat.

the same thing is used, a verbal tap of the drumstick to resume place in line.


RJ

On a side note, only the first round of fire by file is meant to be regulated, after that every manual I've seen says the men then fire on their own without regard for their neighbor.

[RJSamp]

Re: Firing by The Drum

RJ

On a side note, only the first round of fire by file is meant to be regulated, after that every manual I've seen says the men then fire on their own without regard for their neighbor.

That I knew....the quote from the Iron Brigade writings (multiple authors in multiple regiments) is that they would fire one round by volley. Then the command was given to Fire By File, which meant fire on your own crook as fast as you could load and pull the trigger for all you were worth.

In other words, the drill (as it often is!) was different than the reality. The Iron Brigade (drilled by Artillery Battery Captain-Drill Book Writing-Regulated Fire Advocate-General John Gibbon) one of the more Regular Army-like Volunteer units, dispensed with waiting for their file partners on their right AS SOON as the command to Fire By File was given. And I would not be surprised that during combat, it was the same for many many more units.

Just like the Marine (those of the aimed precision rifle firing cult) firing over the wall at Hue (rifle over his head, full auto, firing blindly)....the average American Civil War soldier fired often, quickly, and without restraint......

A reread of the John Otto Dutch Mudsill book is in order.....they carried 120 rounds into Chickamauga on the 2nd day and were searching for more in the prostrate bodies of their comrades. That's a lot of firing.

Methinks we don't fire enough.......and are too regulated by file closers and officers who are full of themselves (too many chiefs, not enough riflemen).

blaze away.....and let's find a quote of firing by the drum in combat.

We do have quotes on commencing fire by the bugle.....that resulted in a volley (not that it was meant to be, more of a 'let em have it and pour it on' command as opposed to Fire by Battalion). and we know that the IV Corps sounded cease fire by a long roll of the drum (1 drummer per Colonel).

[LWhite64]

Re: Firing by The Drum

Back to the NPS, things are different from site to site, most sites dont have uniform regulations, etc. Safety is the only reg that is standard in the NPS. Also, FYI, we dont have Fire by the Drum at Chickamauga anymore, no evidence to back it up, and too many references to drummers being used as strecher bearers.

Lee

[Todd Watts]

Re: Firing by The Drum

Thanks Lee. Stones River and Kennessaw are still allowing the fire-by-drum, when a drummer is available and wants to do it. I was not aware that ChicChat had stopped. I've asked Lewis at STRI if he can come up with any past reasoning behind it, but so far he has not responded.

I'm trying to get a music teacher/historian (Jason Simmons) I know to get on here with his advice on the subject. I spoke to him last night and he read some stuff about buglers making calls to control troops and their firings in the field from the OR. He said the drum calls were indeed officially still taught up to the CW, however their use was on the wane at that time. In other words, some units may have been doing it while many others were not. If he gets on finally, he can shed a lot more light on the idea.

[Campjacksonboy]

Re: Firing by The Drum

As I think a few have already pointed out "Commence Fire" and "Cease Fire" show up in Bruce & Emmetts as well as Scotts.
Scott seemed to put the drum to use quite a bit as someone earlier mentioned. For example various taps at certain times told C.O's to take retake their place in line, etc. However in one volume of Scotts I noticed that he wrote something to the effect that Drums would not be played during the drilling sessions. If anyone asks I can find it and quote directly.
I was surprised with how few field calls there were for the drums and B&E is the best manual I have been able to find because of the explanations although that came later. Certainly there was some reason for B&E to include calls such as Halt, and Recall detachments just to name a few but I've never found any mention of anyone actually using them on the field either.

Also I have a couple mentions of the use of whistles and these were used by Missouri troops around the time of Corinth. They also seem to have seen pre-civil war use with the local militia. Evidently the whistle is not foreign to military use but has anyone ever seen a list of signals? Musical notes for a whistle seem absurd but I'm looking for something along those lines. or is it safe to think they made them up.
Frank Aufmuth

[Joe Walker]

Re: Firing by The Drum

Anybody out there would like to take a stab at the command "fire at will"? You hear it all the time in conjunction with "fire by files", yet "load at will" is all I've seen written. The "fire by file" is clearly and unmistakedly spelled out in the manual (School of company #57 and school of the soldier #273) and I am assuming no one out there is saying that the opening up of that action is not as it is spelled out. Is there a war-time basis for "fire at will"? I know this thread is on firing by the drum, but I couldn't help it.

Joe Walker

[RJSamp]

Re: Firing by The Drum

Anybody out there would like to take a stab at the command "fire at will"? You hear it all the time in conjunction with "fire by files", yet "load at will" is all I've seen written. The "fire by file" is clearly and unmistakedly spelled out in the manual (School of company #57 and school of the soldier #273) and I am assuming no one out there is saying that the opening up of that action is not as it is spelled out. Is there a war-time basis for "fire at will"? I know this thread is on firing by the drum, but I couldn't help it.

Joe Walker

The quotes from the Iron Brigade are that they fired on their own crook, or fired as fast as they could, every man on his own. This is as soon as the command to "Fire by File" was given. I'm heading out of town but would be more than happy to look up the citations for all y'all. Again, it has nothing to do with the manual. We know how they drilled and we know what the manual's state (and yes it's very clear). It has everything to do with Authentic Reality, i.e. recreating or reenacting what they actually did.

Haven't ever heard of the term Fire at Will (have read Load, Load at Will often) during the ACW. Also have never read of the term Fire in the Hole being yelled out during the ACW (although I've heard that expression at many events).

[RJSamp]

Re: Firing by The Drum

As I think a few have already pointed out "Commence Fire" and "Cease Fire" show up in Bruce & Emmetts as well as Scotts.
Scott seemed to put the drum to use quite a bit as someone earlier mentioned. For example various taps at certain times told C.O's to take retake their place in line, etc. However in one volume of Scotts I noticed that he wrote something to the effect that Drums would not be played during the drilling sessions. If anyone asks I can find it and quote directly.
I was surprised with how few field calls there were for the drums and B&E is the best manual I have been able to find because of the explanations although that came later. Certainly there was some reason for B&E to include calls such as Halt, and Recall detachments just to name a few but I've never found any mention of anyone actually using them on the field either.

Also I have a couple mentions of the use of whistles and these were used by Missouri troops around the time of Corinth. They also seem to have seen pre-civil war use with the local militia. Evidently the whistle is not foreign to military use but has anyone ever seen a list of signals? Musical notes for a whistle seem absurd but I'm looking for something along those lines. or is it safe to think they made them up.
Frank Aufmuth

The battle field beats are in CASEY's....literally every skirmish bugle call (and YES they were used for unit's in battle line, not just as skirmishers) has a corresponding drum beat.

I have the WHISTLE systems from the 1812 Duane's manual for light infantry. My web site/ftp site is down this week (getting a new server)...but I'd be more than happy to email you the calls....errr, whistles. It's like three short, two short, 1 short, ADVANCE. 16 rapid short notes equals Rally on the Reserve.....

[Joe Walker]

Re: Firing by The Drum

I am aware of the goof term "fire in the hole" being used at a farb fests and was thinking that "fire at will", may need to go in the same category. My old military training, at that of others may be the source of the "fire at will" command.

Joe Walker

[john duffer]

Re: Firing by The Drum

"In other words, the drill (as it often is!) was different than the reality."

From Macdougall's "THE THEORY OF WAR"

"As a general rule no manoeuvres can be too complicated for the practice of parade drill, to exercise the intelligence and self-reliance of the soldier; but before an enemy none but the simplest movements should be voluntarlly undertaken."

[Todd Watts]

Re: Firing by The Drum

I got a reply from Mr. Lewis about the firing by the drum. It appears that he himself is not aware of any time it was definately used in battle, but that it also cannot really be said it never was. It appears when I have seen it done, and both times it has been with the 2 grops he mentions or when we had a drummer volunteering at Stones River, it is more or less demonstrating the manual drill.

"I am not aware of the historical background for the use of firing by the
drum in the NPS. I have frankly only seen it done by the 21st Ohio and
occassionally by the 9th Kentucky. When we incorporated the drum into our
volunteer training s few years ago, we used the commence firing call that
is contained in some of the period manuals. We used to coordinate a volley,
but it could also be used to begin any firing activity.

I believe this would have been more of a parade ground/training tool than
something that could be effectively used in combat. I know of no references
to its use in combat. Of course, we don't simulate combat in the NPS. Our
firing programs are essentially drill with interpretation of battle events.
So the use of "by the book" drill even though it might not be used heavily,
or at all, on a battlefield seems perfectly appropriate as long as we help
pur visitors understand that battles are never fought "by the book."

Of course, now that we have Jason and his bugle, and no likely drummer
candidates, the bugle calls are likely to be featured more in our future
programs.

Jim Lewis
Park Ranger
Stones River National Battlefield"

[Joe Walker]

Re: Firing by The Drum

In 1988, I was a part of a 125th Aniversary living history program in Gettysburg NMP. I was in a Confederate brigade, made up of ten companies. Eight of the ten compainies were part of an association called "Longstreet's" and its commander was Chuck Hillsman (now deceased). We performed Gilham's and fired by the drum as part of our presentation for the crowds. Based on my memory, and discussions with my old company commander, the reason this was done was because the Virginia men "did it that way" and in a planning meeting prior to the event the GNMP staff agreed to let the Virginians have their way since they made up most of the reenactors. It was not due to the GNPS request. This may be the origin of the "fire by the drum" being used today, or perhaps a possible origin of its use by the NPS. I have no idea if the same units are firing by the drum today.

Joe Walker

[civilwarbuglertn]

Re: Firing by The Drum

Hello gentlemen My name is Jason Simmons and Todd Watts has previously referred to me. I have a degree in music, with a heavy emphasis in Music History as well as education. I also have an additional minor in history, which includes a research class. I have been successful in uncovering several hidden away primary sources in the past. However, I am also a living historian at Stones River National Battlefield. My specialty is bringing in the music to the historic field that has a rich musical history with its battle of the bands December 30, 1862. I also portray a bugler by the name of William J Carson of the 15th US Infantry at the park. He was a Medal of Honor Recipient at Chickamauga, however I do have a letter of his from immediately after Stones River. I do place a high emphasis on being authentic particularly when I portray Private Carson at the park. Just read the following excerpt from the OR 30 on him:

COLONEL: At the request of Major-General Rosecrans, I have the honor to make the following report of Private William J. Carson, bugler in the First Battalion, Fifteenth U. S. Infantry;
On Saturday, September 19, when the regular brigade was falling back, he behaved with most conspicuous gallantry; with a sword in one hand and his bugle in the other, he sounded constantly the "Halt," the "Rally," and the "Forward;" espying a stand of colors belonging to the Eighteenth U. S. Infantry, he rushed up to them and sounded "To the color." His conduct attracted the notice and elicited the admiration of the whole brigade. On Sunday, September 20, before our battalion was engaged, the Eighteenth, being pressed by vastly superior numbers, was falling back; Carson by some means became the possessor of a musket and constituted himself a "provost guard." One of the officers attempted to pass him, but he positively refused to allow it, stating that it was against his orders. All this time he continued to sound the various calls on his bugle. I regret to state that his fate remains a mystery; he was last seen by me late on Sunday afternoon behind the breastworks. I can only hope that he is a prisoner.

Now on the issue of the instruments both bugle and drums. Both instruments were used during the Civil War from a practical stand point, they were LOUDER than the human voice. A human can only yell so loud but the drums and bugle could be heard much further from the source due to the volume and frequency of the tones. In other words you could control more men with them.

The drums specifically is from older times. During the Civil War they began to phased out due the new Napoleonic use of the bugle which came into use during the 1850’s. As for the reason most of your drummers today can not play the calls is because the do not have the training. Most of the calls will take a drummer that is at least on the colligate level if not a trained professional, and I am not talking about your local country or rock drummer. It takes many hours of practice as well as a very good technical knowledge of the various drumming standards. In the modern drumming profession there are 40 rudiments, many are based on these old songs and calls. So to have a chance you must be able to play all of them at any speed correctly. Most people can not. That is the background for the modern problems. The firing by drums would have been spelled out in older manuals such as Revolutionary war or 1812. Many of the tactics would have been passed down orally, by listening. It is conceivable that they would have fired by drum during this time but not as practical as the bugle. The drum would send its sound out in all directions, but it is still louder than the human voice. The bugle is a directional instrument, the sound goes were the bell is pointed, and is much more practical. The units that would have used the drum would have been earlier war units that are directly formed from the state militias.

I like to deal in primary sources and the OR’s are considered some of the despite some inaccuracies. Here are a few:




OR. 2 Pg 272

CAMP ALLEGHANY, August 8, 1861.


SIR: On the night of the 10th of July, 1861, I was stationed with a gun and detachment of the Lee Battery on the extreme right, in front of Camp Garnett. In the forepart of the night of the 10th you brought to the support of my gun about thirty of your musketeers. Immediately after dusk chopping of axes commenced on the creek leading from the gorge near which I was stationed. At the same time chopping was distinctly heard on the mountain to the left of Camp Garnett. This chopping in both directions continued the whole night. On the night of the 10th, about 12 o'clock, you called my attention, awaking me, to the sound of the enemy's bugle. In about one half hour we heard the roll of their drum, and shortly thereafter another sound of their bugle. We then saw on the ridges lights as if in motion. You concluded that the enemy were moving, and ordered me to report the fact to Colonel Pegram. I did so. This was about 1.30 o'clock a. m. Thursday, the 11th. Colonel Pegram sent Adjutant Ransom to you. I remained up with you watching the movements of the enemy till morning, when you returned to camp.

OR 45


Medals of Honor awarded for distinguished services, &c.-Continued.

Megee, William ³Drummer, ³Dec.- ³Bravery in
³Company C, ³ ³action at
³33rd New ³ ³Murfreesboroug
³jersey ³ ³h, Tenn.
³Infantry. ³ ³


OR 39

DECATUR, ALA., October 31, 1864-12. 15 p. m.


Major-General THOMAS:

The following dispatch has just been received from Brown's Ferry, dated October 31, 9 a. m. :

The enemy has made his appearance opposite this place and is firing on my pickets. I heard beating of a drum a few minutes ago, but do not know exactly where it was; believe is was across the river.


OR 12

HDQRS. FIFTH REGIMENT VIRGINIA INFANTRY,
June 11, 1862.


SIR: In compliance with an order from headquarters First Brigade I make the following report of my regiment in the engagements of the 8th and 9th instant:
June 8, the drum beat to arms about 9 a. m. Our wagons were unloaded and the men cooking. Hurriedly we loaded the wagons and were ready to move. I received orders to move in the direction of the bridge near Port [Republic], which the enemy were then trying to destroy. Arriving near the bridge, I was ordered to support Poague's battery on the right of the road leading from Harrisonburg to Port

W. JONES, JR.,
Captain Tenth Indiana Cavalry.


OR 10

Indications of the enemy's approach were made known to these officers by singular beats on the drum in the enemy's lines just before dawn.

OR 11

During the night not a shot was fired by any of the command. The first part of the night a bright light as of a camp was observed, apparently 2 or 3 miles distant, in the direction of Richmond. This light diminished much afterward. At 2 o'clock this morning the sound of a drum was heard for a few minutes. It came from the direction of the


page833 CHAP.XXIII.] BATTLE OF FAIR OAKS, OR SEVEN PINES.


light, and was apparently from 1 to 2 miles distant. Whether it was a long roll or a call I cannot state. In the course of the night three shots were fired, which seemed to come from the pickets of the enemy. The were in a direction a little south of west from us, and the nearest was at least three-quarters of a mile away. At the first break of dawn our outlying pickets fell back upon their supports in the rifle pits, and Company D was then posted in the rifle pit on the extreme left.


Here are a few primary books or diaries:

C. W. Bardeen, “A Little Fifer’s War Diary,” 1st Mass
Infantry

Charles Monroe Chase, “A Union Band Director Views Camp
Rolla: 1861” 13th Illinois Infantry

James Herbert George, 10th Vermont Infantry

Charles Harvey George, “Dear Ellie”, 10th Vermont
Infantry

R. H. Hendershot, “Camp Fire Entertainment and True
History of R. H. Hendershot The Original Drummer Boy of the
Rappahannock,” 9th Michigan Infantry; also, William Sumner
Doge, “R. H. Hendershot, or the Brave Drummer Boy of the
Rappahanock,”

Harry M. Kieffer, “The Recollections of a Drummer-Boy”
150th Pennsylvania Infantry

John S. Kountz, “Reminiscences of John S. Kountz, the
drummer boy at Missionary Ridge”; located, not gotten

Julius Leinbach, “A Johnny Reb Band from Salem” 26th
North Carolina

Ludolph Longhenry, “A Yankee Piper in Dixie: Civil War
Diary of Ludolph Longhenry” 7th Wisconsin (Iron Brigade)

Augustus Meyers, “Ten Years in the Ranks of the U.S.
Army,” USI

William Richard Patton, “Drums and Guns Around
Petersburg,”9th AC, AotP

Charles B. Putnam, Diary and Journal, Vermont Brigade

Frank Rauscher, “Music on the March,” 114th Pennsylvania

George B. Ray, “Journal of…” 5th Ohio V. I.

John L. Ryno, 2/3/3, 126th NY

Charles LeRoy Sheldon, “The Diary of a Drummer”2nd
Brigade, 4th Division, 23 AC --- he was also in the 1st
Michigan Cavalry, beginning of war; those diaries exist
somewhere

John Shillich, “Drum! Drum! Drum!” 51st Pennsylvania
Volunteers

George Ulmer, “Adventures and Reminiscences of a
Volunteer, or a Drummer Boy from Maine,” 8th Maine

Delavan Miller, Drum Taps in Dixie


I would suggest the Augustus Meyers book it is very good.


Jason Simmons
Civilwarbuglertn