AoT Tactics, applied on the Battlefield

[RJSamp]

Re: AoT Tactics, applied on the Battlefield

So maybe the re-enactorism of not taking hits is more accurate (pun intended) than we have heretofore thought?:wink_smil

And maybe the 'reenactorism' of powder burning is more authentic than we have heretofore thought....

[LWhite64]

Re: AoT Tactics, applied on the Battlefield

From Lot D. Young, Reminiscences of a Soldier of the Orphan Brigade, refering to fighting at Chickamauga, "...The Citizens of today will doubtless wonder how any man could escape such a rain of shot and shell, but by the old soldier it is readily understood. While ninty per cent of these shots were being fired the men were lying flat on their faces and were overshooting each other when suddenly one of the other would spring to his feet and with a bound and yell rush at a double-quick upon their foe, giving him time to fire one or at most two rounds when his ranks would be broken and compelled to retire...."

[BrettKIllinois]

Re: AoT Tactics, applied on the Battlefield

It's senario related and battle specific to do it.

The Reenactornism is that its acceptable to have some sort of generic galvanizable kit for for all time frames, theatres and sides.

US Soldiers were wearing bonets during the march to the sea... it doesn't mean it's appropriete for chickamaugua.

Who's saying it's a reenactorism Brett? Just read last night where a 21st Wisconsin Sergeant pulled the shoes of a dead confederate.....and a few months later he pulled the boots off of an officer. I don't see too many reenactors running around barefoot......except of course yourself a few years ago or Roy Brown from Hersey High School/1st MI Engineers.

[LWhite64]

Re: AoT Tactics, applied on the Battlefield

The following from a gunner in Battery I, 4th US Artillery describing the attack of Ector's Brigade on the morning of September 19th, "We once more double shotted with canister and poured into them a murderous musketry fire, yet with their characteristic battle yell on they came receiving our combined artillery and musket fire, until staggering, wavering under the awful slaughter in their ranks, they halted, and, delivering a deadly volley into our ranks, they threw themselves at full length on the ground, and, lying on their backs so as to expose themselves as little as possible they loaded their muskets, then turning over and resting on one knee they delivered their fire, then threw themselves on their backs to load as before. Our Infantry followed their example and for the next half hour an almost muzzle to muzzle (we were about fifty yards apart) musketry fire was maintained. Meanwhile our battery was pouring canisters into the enemy's ranks and with deadly effect, for our gunners, training their guns low, and taking deliberate aim at the always visible foe tore a gap in their line with every discharge literally lifting the prostrate foes at the point of impact high in the air and hurling them back mangled remains of human valor. Human endurance has its limits, and at length the Rebels sullenly fell back and disappeared in the forest in our front.

[Pat.Lewis]

Re: AoT Tactics, applied on the Battlefield

Wow Lee,

The last one you just posted from the artilleryman takes the cake. It hits all the points one could want to emphasize about fighting in the West. It even plays into one of my sneaking suspicions that the 114 shots-per-hit (note not per killed) rate at Chickamauga is much, much too low compared to what it should be when you calculate the effect of cannister. 150? 200? You start to wonder if any infantryman ever his an enemy soldier when you think of firing 4 or 5 cartridge boxes to get a hit. Time and again Confederate attacks can push back infantry but are halted and melt in the face of artillery. In many cases it's the cannister that's dealing out the ton of casualties that it takes to break an attack.

Another point if we want to talk about reenactorisms. Look at the ranges mentioned.

...and for the next half hour an almost muzzle to muzzle (we were about fifty yards apart) musketry fire was maintained.

How many times have you seen a stand up fight at 50 yards at a big event? Compare that to this man calling the same range "muzzle to muzzle" (read suicidal) even when lying down.

I know you've got more of these, Lee. Keep 'em coming.

[sumter_guard]

Re: AoT Tactics, applied on the Battlefield

Whoah Lee! Not to hike the thread but is that the same fight that Sam Sprott of the 40th Ala. talks about when they charge the battery just prior to Cleburne's Division coming in and making their night attack? I'm guessing it is as Stone's Battalion was in Ector's Brigade. This thread is awesome.

Andrew

[LWhite64]

Re: AoT Tactics, applied on the Battlefield

From Val C. Giles, 4th Texas Infantry, Sept.19, "Passing across this little glade we found that the woods became more open, the timber larger and the brush and vines not so thick. We were now under a heavy fire, and our men were falling everywhere. There was not breeze enough to lift the black smoke and it hung low above the ground, so dense that it was almost stifling. Reaching an old road skirting an open field, we were ordered to halt. My old Brigade was well drilled in skirmish tactics and every man took advantage of his knowledge of the skirmish drill and 'took obstacle.' When the officer in command of a skirmish line ffives the order 'take obstacle' he simply means for every man to seek shelter wherever he can find it. The old road was more of a gully than road, and afforded protection for many of the men, but not for all. Every tree, sapling and stump was occupied that was big enough to afford any protection. The Federal batteries beyond the old field were making our position a veritable hell on earth. Shells, grapeshot, canister, shrapnel and Minie balls were tearing through the air, while dirt, leaves, limbs, and bark were falling and flying all over and around us."

[LWhite64]

Re: AoT Tactics, applied on the Battlefield

From Captain Samuel T. Foster, 17th-18th Texas Consolidated Infantry, describing the fighting on Sept. 19th, "Old Pat Cleburn orders us in to stay and we stay; but we are too close to the Yanks...we are so flat on the ground that we dont make much show. They shoot at us, but we do not return it. Now if a soldier ever reasoned about any thing he was ordered to do-we would very naturally enquire what good we were doing here, being shot at and not return the fire-The fireing is very heavy on our right and left, and the Yanks are blazing away at us like fury. Some heavy pine timber here-While lying down here today one man is shot in the head and killed so dead that the man next to him did not know it until we had to move, and moving here was an awful bad piece of business; Bullets fly like the wind you can hear them zip zip- zip but you cant see them. You know they are passing very thick and is all. The fireing gradually slackens up as dark comes on; for here when it gets dark, it is very dark. In the night we are moved to the right lots of others troop going to the right."

One of Cleburne's Command, The Civil War Reminiscences and Diary of Capt. Samuel T. Foster, Granbury's Texas Brigade, CSA. p. 52-53.

[LWhite64]

Re: AoT Tactics, applied on the Battlefield

From Thomas J. Walker, 9th Tennessee Infantry, "Crossing the Creek, the line of battle formed and immediately in our front across a small clearing on the opposite side of a clearing on an elivated ridge, the enemy was posted being works of rails. The order, 'Charge the breastworks!' was given. The line swung forward and from some cause a halt was made in the center of the file. Orders were given to lie down and fire. Right in front of our file was a large pine tree three or four feet in diameter. We at once placed ourselves behind that tree and began to fire, thinking we were fortunate in having such a protection. As we soon found out to our sorrow, the enemy had direct fire on our line and that tree became the target. Before the line advanced to take the fortified line which they did, every soul behind that tree was either killed or wounded."

Confederate Chronicles of Tennessee, Vol.I. "Reminiscences of the Civil War", p. 54.

[LWhite64]

Re: AoT Tactics, applied on the Battlefield

Unknown Soldier of the 2nd Tennessee Infantry descrbing fighting on September 20th, "As Polk's Brigade reached this plateau, a terrible burst of artillery and musketry greeted its appearance. The hissing of the missles was more noticeable than the explosions of the guns, and sounded like the clashings of a multitude of sword-blades in the air overhead. Not a shot of the first volley struck the line, all flying high. Colonel Robison...gave the order to charge, which was only partially heard, and the yell with which we were wont to join battle was feeble, and roused little animation. Unfortunately, parts of the line began to fire, which occasioned a halt, and soon the firing became general. No further attempt was made to go forward, as all commands were drowned in the noise of conflict, and the men constrained by circumstances to endure the pelting of the terrible tempest as best they could. The Second Tennessee occupied a conspicuous position on the plateau, and on this account got an undue share of the enemy's attention; but its fire was so closely delivered and so accurate that few heads were shown above the breastworks; in fact, very few of the enemy fired from the shoulder, the guns generally being held above their heads and fired at random; otherwise, few of the attacking party would have escaped, as it remained under fire fully an hour. The intervening trees were scarred by bullets from bottom to top. The smoke, which shrouded our position somewhat, was another elements of safety, while a few scattered pines and oaks gave some shelter. The writer was one of a party of nine streched out behind one pine. The tree was regarded as a monster in size at this time, but, on inspection after the battle, it proved to be of quite ordinary proportions.
This was, without doubt, the most cheerless and monotonous combat in which the regiment ever engaged. There was nothing to do but load and fire at a dim vista, whence proceeded quick flashes and a constant hiss of bullets. The voice of command was suppressed, and officers lay among the men, awaiting the end of the agony, hardly hoping to escape with life."

The Annals of the Army of Tennessee, Vol. I. 1878. p. 56-57.

[Dignann]

Re: AoT Tactics, applied on the Battlefield

Lee,

These are all great accounts and quotes, but could you provide source citations for them?

Thanks.

Eric

[LWhite64]

Re: AoT Tactics, applied on the Battlefield

Diary entry of Van Buren Oldham, 9th TN,

Saturday, September 19
Crossed the mountains without opposition. After double quickening some distance we entered the fight in a charge. Some halted and lay down when after firing. When after firing several rounds I was wounded in the face. I thought at first I was killed. I am now on my way to the hospital.

9th Tennessee Unit file, CHCH.

[LWhite64]

Re: AoT Tactics, applied on the Battlefield

So, now what can we learn from these accounts? One thing is for sure, lying down and firing was very common. Im trying to locate an account from the Battle of Hoover's Gap that refers to the Confederates advancing and then throwing themselves down, then jumping up again and advancing, the so called Indian Rush, etc. There are also a lot of references to men advancing while firing. Any thoughts?

Lee

[sumter_guard]

Re: AoT Tactics, applied on the Battlefield

While re-reading Sam Sprott's memoirs I came across this recollection that fits just perfect. This is Sprott's recollection of charging the 4th U.S. Artillery Battery "I" with Ector's Texas Brigade at Chickamaugua. Sprott was Captain of Co. A 40th Alabama Infantry:

" . . . Forward we went, guns on the right shoulder, keeping step with the shells bursting, bullets whistling around us and men falling at every step. When we had gone about half way, high above the roar of battle, we heard the commands, 'Battalion halt. Lie down.' This was done in order to give us a breathing spell before making the final rush for the battery. While lying here I saw something that was very amusing notwithstanding the serious surroundings. An old Irish man named Jimmie Barr who had joined Co. D of our battalion as a substitute was lying near me and was loading and shooting as fast as he could. I don't supposed he had ever fired a gun before. He would load, put his gun to his shoulder and when he would go to shoot, he would shut his eyes and turn his head away and in doing so he would elevate his gun to an angle of about forty five degrees, and then pull the trigger and bang away, And this he continued to do so as long as we lay there ."

- From "Cush: A Civil War Memoir" by Samuel H. Sprott. Edited by me and
Louis Smith Jr.

[Pat.Lewis]

Re: AoT Tactics, applied on the Battlefield

I can't get enough of these quotes. As Lee said sometime back in the thread this is stuff that we can't get out of a drill manual anywhere. If I could add one thing I would emphasize the title of the thread. Army of Tennessee tactics as applied on the field. I recall (though away from my books presently) a number of Longstreet's men remarking that Chickamauga was unlike anything they had seen in the East. Quotes to the effect of we were not used to the stand-up-and-fight or rather lie-down-and-shoot battles of the West, and the Union soldiers in the West were not used to the wild rushes and bayonet charges seen in Virginia. I can fill those in later if anyone's interested.

Its great to think of that contrast not only in uniform and appearance between ANV and AoT at Chickamauga but also in fighting style. Perhaps something to ponder for the upcoming LH?