Hats

[PrettyBoyDonovan]

Re: Common Civilian Hats

If its any help my High Rider model reads "Murphy and Griswold, Fine Hats, New York. I have to say it's a very good hat.

type of hats would famers be able to get, or what fits my impression best are good questions for myself and I'm going to have to figure that out. I have question though, The labels in Clearwater hats are they documented sellers of the period or not?
Thanks for all your replies and future ones,

Hello,
I just received a low beehive hat from Clearwater I am very happy with.The label inside says "James G. Gibbes Waterproof Hats Columbia South Carolina" I don't know if this is a period documented hatter or not,perhaps someone more knowledgeable than I can answer that one.

YOS,

Forrest Peterson[/QUOTE]

[KentuckyReb]

Re: Common Civilian Hats

Man...I hate it when somebody's name is on the tip of your tongue and you just can't spit it out. Wasn't there a vendor, I think I remember a discussion of him on this board some time ago, who makes period after-market hat labels from different geographical areas, like a Louisville haberdasher for a fellow from my neck of the woods, a St. Louis, Nashville, Atlanta, yadda yadda. I could've sworn I remembered that from this board.

[Clark Badgett]

Re: Common Civilian Hats

Man...I hate it when somebody's name is on the tip of your tongue and you just can't spit it out. Wasn't there a vendor, I think I remember a discussion of him on this board some time ago, who makes period after-market hat labels from different geographical areas, like a Louisville haberdasher for a fellow from my neck of the woods, a St. Louis, Nashville, Atlanta, yadda yadda. I could've sworn I remembered that from this board.

Micah, actually you might be better served by wearing a cap instead of a hat. Do the QM records exist for the 7th KY? And little freindly advice, forget wearing a Louisville maker if you are doing CS, as Kentucky cornfeds were completely cut-off from Kentucky, well unless you rode with Morgan or Forrest. Didn't Forrest attack Paducah sometime during the war? Wonder if there were any hatters in Paducah.

[KentuckyReb]

Re: Common Civilian Hats

Oh, have no fear. I like my old kepi. It's a good well-made Joe Blunt. Don't see replacing it any time soon. I just usually cuss it a little sometime about the middle of July when it reminds me that 'roastin' ears' doesn't always mean sweet corn. Unfortunately nobody (at least that I'm in contact with) has ever seen any QM paperwork for the 7th Kentucky. The absolute most info I can think of, right off the top of my head, is the fellow who wrote that book talking about their first weapons issue and giving a description of the musket he received that makes it sound like an 1816 conversion. As to hatters in Paducah...I don't know. If I could get a look at the newspaper archives (if the modern Paducah papers were in operation back then) then I could look for adverts. The men were allowed to visit their homes for a few days after the raid since most of them were from that area, and Mr. George says that he was able to get some much-needed clothing. After I think of it though, that point's kinda moot for us because none of us have the horses required to do an impression from the 7th's time with Forrest. Strictly the pre-'64 leg impression for us, alas. Far as the labels, I just mentioned it because Riley was wondering about the labels in a Bender or a Clearwater. Come to think of it...where is that kepi...?

[HOG.EYE.MAN]

Re: Common Civilian Hats

You should pick a hat that best suits you and your body style. I've heard many people here suggest pork pie hats but IMHO only 9% of the reenacting population look good in these hats. Also, if you're big and fat, pork pie's are the worst hats to wear becasue they're extreamly small and you'll look like a goober in it. Out of all the photo's I've examined, pork pie's were the least common out of the bunch.

Here are my suggestions for citizen style hats that look good with a Federal impression, and also seen in many photographs:

Black Hats (because it's more common)
Bowler
Medium Crown Bowler
Flat-top crown
Telescope crown Flat-tops
Flat-top arabia
Stevenson Hat
Dome top Arabia

You can find these hats at: www.benderhats.com

Honestly though, after reviewing many photo's, I would say 3 types of hats (Issue Army Hat, and Citizen hats), are seen more than anything else.

1. Army hats ( Aslo modified army hats)
2. Bowlers (Many different styles and crown heights)
3. Flat-tops (Flat-top crowns, telescope crowns, flat-top arabia)

A good example of this would be on page 124 of EoG Arms and equipment of the Union.... these 3 types of hats are seen more then anything else in the photo.

[Gallo de Cielo]

Re: Common Civilian Hats

"You should pick a hat that best suits you and your body style."

Aaron,

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with the above statement. If we all pick hats, jackets, blankets, etc that best suit our body style and other personal inclinations then I think we're straying from what was issued/what was available at the time. Looking at things through a modern lens of "what makes me look best" completely overlooks the more important thought of "what is the most functional and what was readily available." If one were in Sherman's ranks, you probably wouldn't care if a pork pie or a Stevenson was more flattering to you, only that you had some shade and protection from the rain. Your suggestions of hats and vendors (although previously mentioned in prior posts) is solid but I am wary of having less experienced folks see your comment and then build their impressions on such a premise.

Not trying to be critical but can you see that picking a beehive or a Columbus Depot because it "suits me and my body style" might run completely counter to what is PEC for that unit, time frame, or theater?

Kind regards,

Fred Baker

[HOG.EYE.MAN]

Re: Common Civilian Hats

Fred,

You bring up some good points, however I dissagree with your statement as well. Lets forget about personal preference among uniforms and clothing. Obviously a soldier would not have a personal preference for these items because the government provided this to you, in most cases.

What we are dealing with are CIVILIAN hats, thats all. These hats were usually bought by the soldier and you can't tell me he didn't have a personal choice in this matter if one was given. Right?

I just listed the most common citizen hats seen on Federal Soldiers and if a reenactor wants to choice the best hat that suits him out of that list, then what's wrong with that? (Keeping in mind that we're ONLY dealing with citizen hats on a generic Federal soldier. If a reenactor is doing a particular time frame and unit, then he would need to re-evaluate his situation. I do agree with you there. However, I think this thread is focused on citizen hats on generic Federals).

A researcher, historian, and collector named Larry Strayer once told me: "You pick a citizen hat that you PERSONALLY like (and looks good on your head) as long as it's a common hat seen among photographs you are studying. (unit photo's).

I don't care how authentic your uniform is, what makes or breaks your impression "look" dependes on your hat. If you choice to wear a Citizen hat, then you better pick one that looks good on your head.

I know I'm stirring the pot up a little bit, but it's the truth.

[GreencoatCross]

Re: Common Civilian Hats

I'll have to agree with Aaron. Compare the purchase of a civilian piece of headgear to the modern purchasing and wearing of clothing; you want to wear what suits your personal tastes best. That might be the, "I like this, to heck what others think," kind of approach or it could be the, "I'll wear what's currently high-fashion." The soldiers did not always have a large pool of issue items to choose from that would suit their personal tastes, and the evidence of altered issue dress hats is proof that some men were not happy with the way they looked in the tall stiff things.

For my civilian impression I purchased a "Stevenson" style hat from Tim Bender two years ago and I found almost immediately that it did not look good on me, or rather I did not look good in it. There was nothing wrong with how it was made...I just made a bad judgement call....I hated how I looked in it, to be perfectly honest! I haven't found a civilian hat I like YET but when I do it's mine! As far as my military impression is concerned, I have a crushed-down issue dress hat (crushed to my liking, dammit! :tounge_sm ) and I'm going to be making myself a shallaced "crispy" looking dress hat for those impressions that call for one that is not beat up. Caps are also piling up, but there is not much I can do for those.

I also have to agree with Fred in that yes, at times, in some theaters of War, one hat, one cap, or the other is more suitable than "what you like," or "what looks best." If you look good in some kind of a straw hat as a civilian then you probably don't want that straw hat while laying seige to Petersburg circa 1864.

Brian White
Also in Cincinnati

[Clifford Hyde]

Re: Common Civilian Hats

Tim Allen is another excellant maker and he offers a choice of maker labels. I think telescope and bowler-type hats were common. It seems also that some of clearwaters styles would work well for farmer hats such as the ''slouch'' or high beehive or maybe Dirty Billy's bowler or beehive farmer but i'm not certain. They seem like ideal farmer styles. Clifford E. Hyde

[theknapsack]

Re: Common Civilian Hats

Unfortunately, the original units that I portray do not have very many photos. The main unit I portray (as of late) is the 1st Michigan Engineers. They have one photo that was taken right after the Atlanta Campaign. I tried to scan it and post it on here, but I can't upload .TIF images. Does anyone know how to change it to .gif or .jpg? Anyways, there is five members of the unit (all privates presumabley) that are standing near, or sitting on the earthworks. The one second to the far left (of the group of men) looks like hes wearing a Porkpie. The man in the middle looks as if he is wearing a Stevenson hat.
This photo is on pgs 210 and 211 in The Photographic History of the Civil War Vol. II
The Porkpies I understand are very rare in photos (at least I havn't seen many). Porkpies however do look good and fit my impression. Stevenson hats really don't. What should I do?

Thanks,

[HOG.EYE.MAN]

Re: Common Civilian Hats

"Porkpies however do look good and fit my impression. Stevenson hats really don't. What should I do?"

Riley,
I know it's not black and it may be a bit blurry on some computers, but I'm wearing a "flat-top crown" in my avatar (new avatar comming soon) and I've had a few people confuse this hat with a pork pie. (not sure why). So you may want to look at Mr. Bender's flat-tops as well as his pork pie and compare the two.

https://www.benderhats.com

After you've done the comparison and you feel a pork pie looks best on you, and your heart is set on one, then go ahead and buy it.

[bonniegreenflag]

Re: Common Civilian Hats

While we are on the subject of civilian head gear, how common where wheel hats(not the mexican war variety)? Dirty Billy's tarred wheel hat looks good on me, but Iv stuck to my slouch so far becuase my unit came from rural Va. Would rural people have had access to these hats? perhaps picked them up after recruitment?

[HOG.EYE.MAN]

Re: Common Civilian Hats

Black hats were more common...... I would stick with a slouch hat instead of a wheel cap.

[theknapsack]

Re: Common Civilian Hats

"After you've done the comparison and you feel a pork pie looks best on you, and your heart is set on one, then go ahead and buy it."

To know what hat fits me best I have to try it on and imagine what "personalization(s)" Done to the hat would look best and fit my impression, where I grew up before the war, my hairstyle, etc.
I'd like to buy from Tim Bender, but I see him at events very rairly (once at Gettysburg last year, I didnt have the money to afford one though). Dirty Billy is a little above my price range, and I am concerned about Clearwater's Labels. So, I will wait until I can see Tim Bender again.

Thanks,

[CitizenSoldier]

Re: Common Civilian Hats

Greetings,
Probably one of the most common style of hats worn in the decade prior to the war is the flat top with about a medium brim, often in dark or light colors. Headwear of this type appears in many photographs, genre paintings, and engravings of the 1850's and can be seen in multiple images of soldiers in every theater/service during the rebellion. Examples of this style of hat have been excavated at both the Steamboat Arabia and Steamboat Bertrand archeological sites here along the Missouri River.

One does see a fair amount of telescoped crown hats in the mix as well, these can sometimes be easily seen in images of "played out" hats of the time period as the crown starts to dome out from wear.

Domed hats start appearing in genre paintings fairly early on and then really seem to gain in popularity again toward the end of 1850's. Though out the rebellion they appear in numerous images of servicemen.

For further reading on hat styles from the mid 19th century, I would recommend getting started with the following sources:

Dressed for the Photographer by Joan Severa
The Daureotype in America by Beaumont Newhall
Silver and Gold: Cased Images of the California Gold Rush
by Oakland Museum/National Musuem of American Art

It's my understanding, that many extant felt citizen hats from the mid 19th century do not exhibit maker marks like so much of the reproduction headwear on the current market.

Good luck with your research,
Darrek Orwig