20th TN Uniform discussion

[Daryl Black]

Re: 20th TN Co D uniform

I intend to spend a couple of hours at the Chattanooga library tomorrow. Will post initial findings after lunch.

[CYoungJSU]

Re: 20th TN Co D uniform

I completely agree and this probably should have been studied prior to the end of August. As I said, I really don't have a "dog in this fight" since I am not attending, but as a historian, I believe it is a very valid point. When I was a novice in this hobby, I believed that guidelines were there as a preference to what uniform coat, trousers, etc. were to be worn; I believed number one was the first option, number two the second option and so on, no questions asked. Fortunately, I decided to major in history and learned, sometimes to my chagrin, how to do in depth research. When one really begins researching company requisitions, misc. officer's papers, etc. in the libraries and archives, one gets a completely different view of just how un-uniformed things really were, especially in AoT units. For example, the "official" Chickamauga guidelines(Lee, I know your name is on them, but I believe you would agree) state that option one is a Columbus Depot Jacket, but as we have found over the past several years, clothing from home was prevalent in the majority of units, especially those areas not under Federal control. If we really want to try and portray units during specific seasons, engagements, etc., we need to look at both the qualitative and the quantitative data that is out there (i.e. company requisitions, diaries, letters, ordinance returns, etc.). I have noticed that the hobby has become so fluid that one needs to purchase varying uniforms to "fit" a specific persona during varying scenarios. Unfortunately, the majority of reenactors are not historically minded when it comes to research. Therefore, historians are there to assist in the guidance from unit portrayal to unit portrayal. In my honest opinion, once sufficient research is been completed, "guidelines" should be formed based upon that research and possibly placed in paragraph form, explaining how the information was obtained; a little biography, if you will. For example, if I find that on May 20, 1863, Company I of the 6th Arkansas received 30 jackets, 15 pairs of trousers, etc., I would probably surmise that the likelihood of these jackets being of the Columbus Depot pattern is relatively high. Therefore, I would suggest that the majority of men attending an event portraying the Arkies at Liberty Gap in June of 1863 should be wearing that pattern jacket. To me, substance (why is this option one, two, etc.) is a lot more understandable than a simple list. This will make researching for events more time consuming, but I believe it will be a major pay off in the end as learning will be achieved. This is just a humble suggestion from a humble historian. Thanks for listening to my diatribe, which has been festering since my summers a seasonal public historian at Chickamauga/Chattanooga NMP and has continued to this day. If you all have not ascertained as of yet, I am an ISTJ according to Myers-Briggs and am a stickler for details...my bad.

[CYoungJSU]

Re: 20th TN Co D uniform

By no means do I want to purchase a different uniform for each event, I definately do not have that much money laying around. It has just been my observation that events are getting more "intense," for the lack of a better word,when it comes to changing personas in order to fit the specific period or engagement being portrayed. In my opinion, it does not seem to be as generic and even more varied equipment is required now to meet more strenuous "standards" than there were several years ago. With that impression in mind, I believed my previous post was warranted. I tell you, events put on by members associated with this forum can get nothing but better though. I do know that for a fact!!

[Daryl Black]

Re: 20th TN Co D uniform

Pat,

I agree that reinventing the wheel is a fruitless endeavor. However, it seems that in many cases we can learn a good bit about the specifics of the Confederate experience by taking some time to delve into the conditions we are trying to replicate. Anyone look at the 20th's regimental before these guidelines were constructed? What about the regiment's trip through Mississippi as they moved back to reunite with Bragg? What about the numerous visits home by the men during November 1862? What about the robbing of the 45th Tennessee of camp? I point these things out not as negative reflections on the event coordinators but as examples of how a brief review of fairly readily available sources can nuance our attempts to replicate specific times and specific units. There are willing and talented hands around who have done the research and have deep AND broad knowledge.

Looks like a soggy walk to the library today so it'll likely be Monday before I can get to the CSRs. But I'll get to them eventually and get the information out.

[paulcalloway]

Historical 20th TN Uniform discussion

I've moved some of the posts from Pat Landrum's guidelines for the impression of the 20th TN at the upcoming Outpost event and put them in this thread.

[Daryl Black]

Re: 20th TN Uniform discussion

Thanks Paul. I think this is a pretty important thread and gets at the changing nature of what we are doing. The desire on the part of many to replicate specific times and units really demands detailed research. Much of that research has been done -- some in available form -- Tom's book; some is not so readily available -- Lee White's work on the ATN comes to mind. In the case of the unpublished work, simply asking for a run down works. Get Lee talking about this and you'll be hard pressed to get him to stop. Others, both active, semi-active, and inactive in the hobby side of things have done very solid work. From my long experience these folks love to talk about their research and share their findings. A brief look at the acknowledgements page in Tom's book is a whose who in old-time reenactors/living historians whose interest in Civil War material culture and replicating it has pushed our understanding of "what they looked like."

Perhaps this is a good time to think about what we know, how we know it, and how much more work there is to be done. Of course the corallary to this is how do we put this knowledge into effect? My own sense is that having a living history material culture time-line would be helpful. By making the general trends in clothing supply more clearly understandable we'll be able to more accurately portray what we say we are portraying. I'm a fan of an idea Patrick Lewis and Lee White came up with. Find and regularly portray units that are well documented; organize what we know of their supply for specific times; create a set of guidelines that reflects our best considered conclusions about ratios of different types of clothing; based on this give them a ranking for every 10 men (3/10 frock coats, 4/10 homemade clothes, 3/10 army issue clothes); provide footnote/references for the ratios.

Well, enough for now. I'll get some materials gathered from the 20th TN CSRs early next week.

[unclefrank]

Re: 20th TN Uniform discussion

Sir, while you are at it, could you possible check on the 20th Tenn records, if there are any, for the Mill Springs peroid?

[Daryl Black]

Re: 20th TN Uniform discussion

Frank,

I'll try to look at the early stuff. Anything in particular you seek?

[CYoungJSU]

Re: 20th TN Uniform discussion

Very good idea Daryl, I fully support the research of a well documented unit and recreating that unit over different periods.

CY

[Daryl Black]

Re: 20th TN Uniform discussion

CY,

I think we (meaning those of us in N. GA and Middle TN) can actually come up with several units to create such a profile. Much work has been done over the last 14 years that provides really good material culture profiles.

[unclefrank]

Re: 20th TN Uniform discussion

Hey Daryl,

I'm very curious to see if Short Jackets and Kepi style caps were present in the ranks that early. Thank you for your efforts.

[threepdr]

Re: 20th TN Uniform discussion

Although I'm not an active participant much these days, I'd love to hear what Daryl and others find on the 20th TN, especially Company C. My G-G-Grandad, Willis Whitwell, was a LT in Company C so the unit holds a special place for me.

He left the unit in May "62 when he got "un-elected" during the big reorganization of the AOT.

Thanks

Mark Hubbs
Huntsville, AL

[Daryl Black]

Re: 20th TN Uniform discussion

Hey Mark,

Sounds like we need to do a big project on the 20th. The regimental is pretty good and if I recall correctly from some work in their CSRs we'll find a good bit of material in them. I'll keep you ancestors name in mind as I scroll through microfilm later.

[fortdonelsonrelics]

Re: 20th TN Uniform discussion

Wish I had seen this thread prior to the Chicago Show. A couple walked in with an I'd 6th plate of two soldiers in the 20th TN and a Noble Bros. Pewter C.S.A, mint non-dug that belong to one of them.

The one was clearly wearing what appeared to be a regulation Columbus Depot Captains (frock) uniform with just the bars, the other was wearing a civilan style frock with First Sgt's stripes. Wished I'd snapped a shot.

John Walsh
Dover, Tn

[Daryl Black]

Re: 20th TN Uniform discussion

From, W. J. McMurray, "History of the Twentieth Tennessee Regiment Volunteer Infantry, C. S.A.", Nashville, 1904

p. 222-223 "On August 18 [1862], General Ruggles received orders from General Breckinridge to take command of all troops in this military district, except the troops from Kentucky and Tennessee, and they were to be sent by way of Clinton to Camp Moore, and from Camp Moore to Jackson, Mississippi, where we camped a while. The two Governments were at this time exchanging prisoners at Vicksburg, and several men of the Twentieth Regiment who had been captured on the different fields of battle were exchanged and rejoined us here. We then boarded the cars and went to Holly Springs in North Mississippi, and in a day or two we were ordered by way of Jackson, Mississippi, Mobile and Montgomery, Alabama, via Atlanta, Georgia, to Knoxville, Tennessee. We went by rail to Jackson, Mobile, Montgomery, Atlanta and on to Knoxville, with the expectation of following General Bragg into Kentucky, and while here learned of the great battle of Perryville, and how the Tennessee troops had distinguished themselves on this bloody field, winning fresh laurels for the Volunteer State. We also learned that Bragg was coming out of Kentucky, and Breckinridge's command was ordered to meet Bragg's forces at Murfreesboro. We arrived there by rail about the middle of October, and went into camp out on the Woodbury Road about one mile from town. In about two weeks the Twentieith and Forty-fifth Tennessee Regiments were ordered ten miles north of Murfreesboro on the Nashville pike to Stewart's Creek, to support a lot of our cavalry at Lavergne, still five miles further north toward Nashville. While here and at Murfreesboro a great many of the Twentieth and Forty-fifth Regiments got permission to go home to see their families, as many lived in the surrounding country near here.

p. 223 "Also while here at Stewart's Creek, the weather had begun to get quite cool and a snow of about two inches fell and we had a rousing rabbit hunt. The entire regiement formed in line of battle and swept through the woods with great success. A portion of the Forty-fifth Tennessee and one Company of the Twentieth Tennessee were largely raised in this community. The boys of the Twentieth knew that the Forty-fifth had in their camp a great many good things just come from home, and now how to get them was the question. So the Twentieth Regiment got up a snowball fight with them and a charge was ordered, and the boys of the Twentieth mixed up with the Forty-fifth in their own camp and the battle waxed warm, and while about three-fourths of the Twentieth Regiment were waging war in the heart of the Forty-fifth's camp, the other one-fourth was packing off into our camp whatever they could get. When the fight was over the Forty-fifth did not have near as many good things as they did when it opened, they even lost a good per cent. of their cooking utensils, and the best of their arms."