Over Coats in the Trans-Mississippi

[jacifus]

I am currently researching and putting together an impression as an early to mid-war Confederate in the Trans-Mississippi (Walkers Division), and could use suggestions as to what type of overcoats or greatcoats were used, etc.
I have checked out the usual sources, such as "Echoes of Glory"....

Any help in this area would be greatly appreciated!





Jaye Curtis
12th Texas Infantry

[Cfarrell]

Re: Over Coats in the Trans-Mississippi

Jaye,

Depending on how early...It took a while for the Trans-Mississippi depot system to gear up and begin supplying the men. If you read the Texas and Arkansas newspapers from the months before the winters of '61 and '62 you can see countless articles calling for clothing for the soldiers. I'm sure military clothing was being issued to some degree. But its my opinion that civilian and commutation jackets would have been more common in those years.

The articles talk about women of a counties forming ladies aid societies and sending down military officials to collect all the clothing available to be supplied from the ladies.

So again, only my opinion, but I believe it would be more common to have seen civilian and commutation clothing...so to answer your question, a civilian pattern overcoat might be your best bet.

Federal greatcoats wouldn't have been seen (if at all) until later years '63 or '64 - which would have been a result of captured gear. It is documented that a few Trans-Miss. units were garbed in captured federal clothing at the time of the battles of Mansfield and Pleasant Hill - but, I have not seen any documentation to greatcoats. So at this point I wouldn't recommend a captured federal greatcoat for your impression.

Maybe Fred Baker, Cody Mobley, or Phil Graf can chime in on this...their knowledge is much greater then mine regarding the subject.

Regards,

[jacifus]

Re: Over Coats in the Trans-Mississippi

One of my pards was telling me that he saw a Gray overcoat, patterned like a federal one in the Texas Civil War Museum, but I am thinking like yourself, that perhaps a civilian-type would be more acurate......:)

[Cfarrell]

Re: Over Coats in the Trans-Mississippi

Well something to always keep in mind in regard to Trans-Mississippi uniforms and gear is to be cautious. Just because something is in a museum in Texas for example doesn't always mean it originated at a Trans-Miss. depot or the Trans-Miss. at all. A lot of garments were brought here after the war or have been purchased from collections out east to be put in museums.

There a lot of "holy grails" out here in the Trans-Miss. Stuff like the Houston Depot clothing and gear or the penitentiary fabric are missing links to this portion of the hobby. We have documentation of manufacture, descriptions of the items, even pictures (drawings) of it in use. We have all that but no hard evidence, no jacket to go look at.

Anyhow, just remember to be cautious. Don’t automatically assume it originated in the Trans-Miss.:D

Regards,

[DougCooper]

Re: Over Coats in the Trans-Mississippi

One of my pards was telling me that he saw a Gray overcoat, patterned like a federal one in the Texas Civil War Museum, but I am thinking like yourself, that perhaps a civilian-type would be more acurate......:)

That particular overcoat is an English import and was worn by a Virginia soldier...but a lot of imported cloth and uniforms came into Texas. There are refs to Trans-Miss overcoats being produced from "casinette" - Don Smith and/or Nic Clark have the notes I believe.

[Lee Ragan]

Re: Over Coats in the Trans-Mississippi

Cody,
I beg to differ with you on the use of Federal overcoats in the Trans-Miss. Many of Sibley's men used captured greatcoats in the New Mexico campaign in late 1861 early 1862. The Texans captured a lot of federal uniforms and gear early on from the frontier forts in Texas and New Mexico. In REBELS on the RIO GRANDE, Sgt. Peticolas tells of the incident at Glorietta Pass where he mistakenly ended up in the federal firing line, but was not identified as a Texan because he was wearing a US Army greatcoat like the rest of the troops.
Even later in Lousiana, captured federal uniform parts and gear was used. In WALKERS GREYHOUNDS, it mentions that the use of captured US Army uniform parts was common.

[jacifus]

Re: Over Coats in the Trans-Mississippi

Lee:

That is really interesting to know, since my unit the 12th Texas Infantry was indeed part of Walker's Division.....I just want to get the best educated guess on the subject, and I really appreciate the input. I have been gravitating toward the Federal Overcoat, and your input seems pretty convincing :)

[jacifus]

Re: Over Coats in the Trans-Mississippi

Cody:

Thanks for the info, and you are right about assuming. I am in the process of completely replacing my kit, mainly because I DID assume :)

[jacifus]

Re: Over Coats in the Trans-Mississippi

That particular overcoat is an English import and was worn by a Virginia soldier...but a lot of imported cloth and uniforms came into Texas. There are refs to Trans-Miss overcoats being produced from "casinette" - Don Smith and/or Nic Clark have the notes I believe.

Doug:

What is "cassinette"? I would be interested in reading up on it....:)

[ohpkirk]

Re: Over Coats in the Trans-Mississippi

A good starting point for you would be Vicki Betts' website which houses numerous articles from period Texas and Southern newspapers. Letters from the troops in Arkansas during the winter of 1862, as well as clothing requests by the Regimental commanders back to local sewing circles, show that there was a huge deficit in the amount of winter clothing in the ranks of the Texas troops. In the Houston Telegram there is an ad requesting any type of winter garment to be forwarded to those troops stationed in Arkansas.

The Texas depot system was not in full effect until the Spring of 1863, and while some coats were produced in Houston under Wharton's watchful eye, not enough were manufactured to aid the Texans in Arkansas to any measurable degree.

Since you are wanting to start over, correctly, I would suggest that you obtain a civilian pattern overcoat constructed of a correct cloth for the socio-economic background of the soldier you are portraying. Commutation clothing existed well beyond the creation of the Depot system in Texas and Louisiana. Letters from a soldier in the 11th Texas, Jordan Reasonover, show that well into 1864 he was requesting that his father travel from Panola County (they lived near present day Carthage, Tx) and bring him clothing as he did not care for the military clothing being provided for him.

[jacifus]

Re: Over Coats in the Trans-Mississippi

Cody;

Do you have a link to the website?


Thanks,

Jaye Curtis

[ohpkirk]

Re: Over Coats in the Trans-Mississippi

http://www.uttyler.edu/vbetts/

[Cfarrell]

Re: Over Coats in the Trans-Mississippi

I stand corrected Mr. Ragan. I was not thinking of Sibley's raid at the time I posted. I was thinking of Walker's Texas Division. Sorry for that.

But, I stand by what I said earlier regarding federal greatcoats being seen in the eastern Trans-Miss. If I recall it wouldn't have been until the spring going into summer months when Walkers division would have got their hands on captured clothing. Would the federal army have had greatcoats going into a summer campaign...seems like extra baggage to me. But I did not close the door on the possibility...I left it open a bit.

Lee, if I'm missing something please let me know. I make a few mistakes here and there. :D

Regards,

[Lee Ragan]

Re: Over Coats in the Trans-Mississippi

Cody,
I'll conceed you are probably right about the eastern Trans-Miss. I had also not considered the summer part of the equation. We just don't really know how much of the captured pre-war clothing found it's way east into Louisiana and at what time this may have happened.Some of the overcoats may have survived the New Mexico campaign, but I doubt that because the tragic retreat back into Texas lasted into the summer of 1862. That indicates the boys didn't bother bringing back any cold weather clothing.
One thing that makes this hobby so interesting is the never-ending detective work we try to do to get it right.

[Cfarrell]

Re: Over Coats in the Trans-Mississippi

I've learned to never say never when it comes to Trans-Miss. You'll never know what might turn up around the corner.

Regards,