Forage cap alterations...

[WoodenNutmeg]

I have read over the years varying arguments regarding cap alterations on both sides.

However, I have been unsuccessful in properly addressing the following query.

As a strictly Federal reenactor, I have explored numerous avenues in an attempt to uncover evidence of forage cap alteration for the purposes of size adjustment. While I have found this to be more than common among Secessionist soldiers (kepis, forage caps, even derbys), I have found little evidence to make this evident and therefore true for Union troops as well.

During early to mid-war, if a Federal private was tossed a 7 1/2 and he needed a 7 1/4, did he toss it back and take another? Did he alter it? Late-war questions truly plague me in regards to this. If a private lost his cap, had it blown off by the wind in a retreat lets say, I suppose it was easy enough to find one his size amongst the departed, but I still question whether or not forage cap alterations took place, regardless of availability, for the purposes of size adjustment.

I look forward to any and all answers.

Pvt. Bryan O'Keefe, Esquire

[Ross L. Lamoreaux]

Re: Forage cap alterations...

There has been some past discussion on the alteration of uniform items, particularly for the Federal soldier, on this forum. The prewar regulars had company tailors assigned within the regiments. These were soldiers detailed to take care of those alterations required amongst those in need. With the Army issuing clothing in only 4 sizes, this was a very common need. These tailors may or may not have had some kind of training either before enlistment or during service, but it can be said that if they could alter a frock coat or trousers, its not a stretch to pull out a couple of seams in a forage cap to take it in. Granted this was practice for the Regulars, but there is evidence of this practice within the ranks of the volunteer regiments as well. I think that what you might want to do is look at as many period images as you can and look at the fit of their caps. You will find every shape and configuration of caps imaginable, with some riding like a beanie, some almost on their ears, some on the back of the head, and some ride just like they were intended. Its probably not easy to tell if they were altered, but one conclusion that I've drawn is that caps are usually the poorest fitting of all garments, but who is to say how many were altered or not.

[Rob]

Re: Forage cap alterations...

I have made too-large caps and hats fit by inserting a piece of a rifle sling or haversack strap behind the sweatband. I would find it extremely hard to believe that I'm the first to come up with the idea. After you've been out in the rain with it a few times, it'll shrink on its own anyway.

[Sewing Vixen]

Re: Forage cap alterations...

Friends I Know just roll up the back of the hat to make it a bit smaller. Its quick, dirty, and easy. I don't know how often or even if this was done, but it works well.

[markj]

Re: Forage cap alterations...

Proposals for making an oversize cap fit to size:

1. Turn over cap.

2. Insert a strip of cloth inside the sweatband or tie the cloth around your head to take up the slack.

3. Turn cap over.

4. Place cap on head.

5. Done.

or

1. Say the magic words to the QM: "Sir, may I get a smaller size cap, please?"

or

1. Find another man in your company who has a cap that's too small and trade with him.

or

1. If you have the time, money, and wherewithal, just buy a decent private-purchase cap from a sutler or local merchant.

or, if you're reasonably skilled in sewing....

1. Remove an appropriate amount of fabric from, say, the rear of the cap and then stitch it back together.

With malice toward none and with charity to all, I respectfully suggest you not think too much about this question. Put yourself in their shoes: if you're supporting the war effort by digging ditches at "Confederit X Roads, Tennessee" and have a cap that's too big, how would you fix it?

Very truly yours, &c.,

Mark Jaeger

[WoodenNutmeg]

Re: Forage cap alterations...

Very interesting remarks, Ross.

I never really put much emphasis on the designated tailoring possibilities as I really never knew where their role (regimental seamsters) began and where it ended. While I am aware that the regulars were well versed in simple repairs and alterations (trousers, coats, shirts), I again wasn't sure were their abilities began and ended either. I guess my question ultimately encompassed volunteers more so than the above aforementioned persons, but I believe you did an excellent job of covering them all.

The wear, shape, and form of caps is another terrific point as well, Ross. While we can't attribute some of the images we see to alternations, we can't discount the possibility either.

Your comments were truly informative to the topic. Thanks for the great reply.

Pvt. Bryan O'Keefe, Esquire

[WoodenNutmeg]

Re: Forage cap alterations...

Put yourself in their shoes: if you're supporting the war effort by digging ditches at "Confederit X Roads, Tennessee" and have a cap that's too big, how would you fix it?

A comical yet extremely poignant point, Mark. Lest we forget, though, that in between duty there were those extended down times where the desire to alter some gear (i.e. forage caps) surely must have taken place. Again, I think Ross addressed this well.

Aside, I don't believe anything is being thought about too much here, Mark. Far from it; It's merely a conversation about authenticity. A historian would not be much of a fact hound if they didn't know as much as they could about their area of expertise, no matter how minimal the details. Because without details, where's the real story?

Pvt. Bryan O'Keefe, Esquire

[Rob]

Re: Forage cap alterations...

Paralysis by analysis.

Combat soldiers tend to be very resourceful out of necessity. How much thought do you think they actually gave to this matter?

[WoodenNutmeg]

Re: Forage cap alterations...

I fail to see your point, Rob.

I suppose this inquiry is of interest to those who research and make period clothing, as well as to those who just like to learn, if it isn't to you personally.

Furthermore, if you want to delve into Civil War soldiers' thoughts (which is a very tricky thing to do mind you), not only would they never have thought someone would care enough about their forage caps in 140+ years to make such inquiries as mine, they would have also failed to think that men and women would one day spend so much time, money, and research to recreate their experiences on the weekends as a hobby.

Pvt. Bryan O'Keefe, Esquire

[Rob]

Re: Forage cap alterations...

I have not yet seen a detailed description of how soldiers took a dump in the woods, and, yet, they must have done so. Perhaps we should skip doing this until we have an exact description of how it was done in 1863?

Most, if not all, of us here know that clothing as issued often did not fit, and, in these cases, one could either a) trade for a better fit, b) visit the company tailor, or c) make do with what one had somehow.

There is plenty of evidence that clothing was altered to fit... but what kind of proof are you looking for? And does such proof even exist?

When I jam a piece of a rifle sling or whatever behind the sweatband to make a loose cap fit until it shrinks, am I now being less "authentic" because I haven't actually found a first-hand reference to this exact thing? And would a soldier have bothered to write home describing in minute detail the process of modifying a cap to fit? Probably not.

If and when such a reference becomes available, I would be glad to see it, but for now, as long as I am not using modern materials and methods to do this, I would not waste much time worrying about it.

[WoodenNutmeg]

Re: Forage cap alterations...

George: What did they do for toilet paper in the Civil War?
Jerry: Why?
George: I wonder what toilet paper was like in the 1860s.

[George pauses to think]

George: Did they carry it in rolls, in there duffel bags?
Jerry: Everything with you comes down to toilet paper.
George: What?
Jerry: That's always the question with you. Why is that always your focus?
George: Alright then, what did they do?
Jerry: I don't know, maybe, they gave out big loose clumps to all the soldiers.
George: I think it would be nice if there was some sort of historical record for it.

[Jerry looking annoyed...]

Jerry: Maybe they should have a toilet paper museum. Would you like that? So we could see all the toilet paper advancements down through ages? Toilet paper during the Crusades, the development of the perforation, the 1st six-pack!

[George rolls his eyes and averts his attention from Jerry]

Pvt. Bryan O'Keefe, Esquire

[BigRonFH]

Re: Forage cap alterations...

George: What did they do for toilet paper in the Civil War?
Jerry: Why?
George: I wonder what toilet paper was like in the 1860s.

[George pauses to think]

George: Did they carry it in rolls, in there duffel bags?
Jerry: Everything with you comes down to toilet paper.
George: What?
Jerry: That's always the question with you. Why is that always your focus?
George: Alright then, what did they do?
Jerry: I don't know, maybe, they gave out big loose clumps to all the soldiers.
George: I think it would be nice if there was some sort of historical record for it.

[Jerry looking annoyed...]

Jerry: Maybe they should have a toilet paper museum. Would you like that? So we could see all the toilet paper advancements down through ages? Toilet paper during the Crusades, the development of the perforation, the 1st six-pack!

[George rolls his eyes and averts his attention from Jerry]

Pvt. Bryan O'Keefe, Esquire

Well???.... What IS the answer??? Now I'm curious, too.

Ron Hopkins

[JacobReichwein]

Re: Forage cap alterations...

Gotta love Seinfeld!

[WoodenNutmeg]

Re: Forage cap alterations...

Thanks, Patrick...I knew it would appeal to someone.

Bryan O'Keefe, Esquire

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Forage cap alterations...

Hallo!

"...I knew it would appeal to someone"

For the "Authenticity Discussion" folder, this has literally and figuratively fallen into the sinks. And is closed.

Curt