What Kinda Knapsack is This??

[Shockoe Hill Cats]

I had a question I've been meaning to ask for some time now. It surfaced in the previous discussion thread but I figured a separate post would be more appropriate:

It's my understanding that some Zouaves were issued
unpainted knapsacks. I have heard in the past that Ellsworth's N.Y. Fire Zouaves, most specifically, were issued such items (along with unpainted haversacks; though I have never been able to evidence this).

No disrespect Mr. O'Keefe, but I was under the impression that the Zouaves had a completely different model (or models). One that can be seen in five documentations (see attachments). I particularly want to know what kind No. 3 & 5 are:

No. 1 & 2 -- Two drawings by Thos. Nast of the 1st Fire Zouaves. Note that in the first attachment, there is no apparent chest strap. Also, that the back overlapping straps do not cross over each other but remain strictly vertical.

No. 3 -- The imfamous photograph of Francis E. Brownell ,"Ellsworth's Avenger." His "soft knapsack" does have the chest strap. The material appears to be made of tarred canvas. See how shiny it is?

No. 4 -- Drawing by Alfred Waud in '61 of the 1st Fire Zouaves. The knapsack portrayed here looks to be the same hardpack as in No. 1/2. Two interesting parts are the bedroll on top and what looks to be some sort of mess tin secured between the two back straps?

No. 5 -- Finally, a soldier sportin' what I think is the same model knapsack that Brownell has. This photograph was taken at Petersburg, Va. (LC-DIG-cwpb-01229). Seen is the chest strap and oilcloth material.

So, what do ya think? What model is No. 3 & 5?

[Johnny Lloyd]

Re: What Kinda Knapsack is This??

Sir-

1 and 2 look like bad drawings of a Federal double bag knapsack (made by a civilian not familiar with the Army's equipment?)

The pencil drawing looks like an Issac & Campbell from the English Mess Tin cover attached to the back... it appears.

Does this help a bit?

Just a thought... Johnny

[HighPrvt]

Re: What Kinda Knapsack is This??

Maybe Mex-War style?

[dnaples]

Re: What Kinda Knapsack is This??

Marc Hermann has done a lot of great research on the 11th NY (1st Fire Zouaves). You may want to ask him, or if he responds to this post, about the knapsacks. I know he was talking about them having some kind of knapsack/tent combination, very interesting stuff.

Here is a link to some of his research: http://www.myrtle-avenue.com/firezou/

Thanks,

[WoodenNutmeg]

Re: What Kinda Knapsack is This??

No disrespect taken, Mr. Spellman.

Keep in mind, however, that I was told this in passing as a possibility and not as a fact. I also stated in my post that I have never been able to find evidence to back that shared information up as truth. I myself have come across many images of Zouaves and I have never seen unpainted packs, so, the issue is certainly debatable.

In my own limited findings, though, I have found evidence that Zouaves packs, for the most part, are unique.

Pvt. Bryan O'Keefe, Esquire

[jgr1974]

Re: What Kinda Knapsack is This??

French? Not being sarcastic, but several units French Zouave, and Italian units used French equipment. It was imported in sets just Like the British gear was. I will have to do some digging, I think I have a maazine with an article on French gear here somewhere!

THe Mad MIck!!!

[Shockoe Hill Cats]

Re: What Kinda Knapsack is This??

Some interesting updates from a source:

The drawing in No.4 is actually a United States Zouave Cadet, Ellsworth's antebellum soldiers. Though the LoC lists the drawing as "1st New York Zouaves."

Apparently, the mysterious knapsack I've been trying to ID is a "patented rubberized tent-knapsack." Does anyone know anything more about this type? A quick search turned up no results. Scratch that, found the dimentions and more info.

Thanks all, just need a little more time and faith in myself! ;)

[jgr1974]

Re: What Kinda Knapsack is This??

Lord's encyclopedia's may be of some help. they also have patent info in them.

The Mad MIck!!!

[jacobite8749]

Re: What Kinda Knapsack is This??

Photos' 1,2 & 3 look like the "patented rubberized tent-knapsack" . Having been taken with Mike Woshner's book of late, there is a wonderful illustration in there. I think 4 looks like an Austrian type, as it is a drawing there is no telling if it is cow hide with the hair on, which a lot of Austriam knapsacks were. Do not think it is a British type.

[zouavecampaigner]

Re: What Kinda Knapsack is This??

Jason,

did you forget about the firezouave website ? haha

Zou ZOU!

regards,
Shaun