musician's saber (field use)

[125th ohio drummer]

ive seen many a farby drummer carrying their musican's saber into battle with them....ive had an argument on the authenticity of this with a few such drummers and they are convinced that their saber was a part of their uniform that they not only must carry but use in the field of battle...i must know...is this so?

thanks,
principal musician travis holdren 21st ovi

[Jeffrey Przewozniak]

Re: musician's saber (field use)

Hi Travis,

I'm of the opinion, that during reenacted battle, musicians ought to be "using" their drumsticks, (or, aidng the wounded, etc, as the case may be) rather than their sabres. I mean, how exactly would they use them? Swashbuckling with other musicians? Not likely... :D

Pertaining to how common they would've been, when in doubt, conusult the phtographs...

http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/cwarquery.html

Always remember to consult original documents and photographs, and you ought to be just fine. Ask yourself who you are portraying, that character's regiment, then find out if they carried sabres.

I'm not one to often venture into the realm of generality, but I might be so bold as to advise to leave the toad-stickers at home, unless it's a documented, specific impression. Besides, you could loose an eye with those things! Hope this helps. I am in earnest,

[markj]

Re: musician's saber (field use)

Hi,

I would tend to agree with Jeff's view that you should, as a rule, not wear a musician's sword in the field although they would certainly be appropriate for formal occasions (i.e., reviews, parades, inspections, etc.). Having said this, I've noted that the "Indiana State Armorer's Books" (maintained in the Indiana State Archives) carry entries detailing mass issues of musician and NCO swords to mustering Hoosier regiments (especially in late 1861 and early 1862). Sufficient evidence exists that quite a few Indiana regiments did carry such items into the field but seem to have ditched them rather quickly thereafter.

This image does not show a musician but, rather, a 1st Sergeant of the 80th Indiana. However, it can be dated pretty securely to September 1862 so it does show that enlisted swords were still being issued to Hoosier regiments at that time. For all we know, this man may have been wearing his sword at Perryville the following month!

http://www.80thindiana.net/80webste.htm

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[marlin teat]

Re: musician's saber (field use)

As a recovering drummer I offer this advice: tell them to try marching for a distance with full kit (including sword) while playing. In my opinion the sword would be one of the first unnecessary items to be packed on the trains or "lost". No documentation on this.....just practical experience.

[markj]

Re: musician's saber (field use)

Greetings,

Two well-known early war (c. Summer 1861) images of 4th Michigan musicians show them wearing swords. One shows the band of the 4th MVI and the other depicts Musician F. R. Barnes, Company F, 4th MVI (I'm not sure if he was a fifer or drummer). These are both maintained at the National Archives. I can't attach the images to this post but if you'll contact me privately at markj@purdue.edu I'll send them to you.

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[va-yank]

Re: musician's saber (field use)

As someone else pointed out in another thread, you can make good use of the Library of Congress CW photograph index.

http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/cwarquery.html and enter the word "band"

Of the several hits returned, see if you get an image of musicians in the field sporting their swords.

Here is a typical example.

http://memory.loc.gov/service/pnp/cwpb/04000/04015v.jpg

[texandrummer61]

Re: musician's saber (field use)

My opinion on the sword is that many a farby drummer decided to carry around a sword, normally reserved for dress purposes, with the intention
of just' looking big.' In many tintypes , you can see yank drummers holding
their swords, but it has been proven that early war tintypes are not a good
resource for the rest of the war. Likewise with the pistols or fighting knives,
they were proved impractical as the war went on. An infantryman's purpose was not to run into enemy lines slashing with his knife, nor was it a drummer's purpose to wave a sword around while he was supposed to be
drumming- [hence the name drummer] :sarcastic

Ian Broadhead
5th Texas a co.
Medich Battalion

Texans always drive them!!- Robert E.Lee

[Radical Unionist]

Re: musician's saber (field use)

Well in my opinion, the sword is part of the uniform, so it was actually up to the individual musician to wear it or not. There is not any sort of rule about whether to wear one or not, at any particular time is there? I would guess that music would not want to wear swords or anything else nearly as useless as a sword.

Here is something I think we could all use some clarity on though, what is the deal with claiming that company music was used as stretcher bearers? Is this true, or just something picked up from the movies? And I am aware band members were used as such, but don't you need company music for directing orders and such?

Jeff Boorom
Wide Awake

[Smokey Toes]

Re: musician's saber (field use)

Jeff,
Yes, and it went further than just stretcher bearer and ambulatory duties. According to a board of inquiry conducted in 1865 (6Rpt, Proceedings of Board of Inquiry (26 Jan 1865), RG 112, entry 12.):
“The fact that contract nurses worked only in general hospitals left City Point short of attendants when commanding officers ordered the musicians serving as nurses to prepare to march.” The medical department was so shorthanded that according to this same report, “recent graduates of Harvard’s Medical School were also committed to serve three months.” Musicians were non-combatants, and as such assumed various combat support roles in addition to their primary role of musicians. So, due to the pressing need for personnel in other non-combat related duties, and the urgency created by thousands of casualties per engagement, musicians were often detailed as nurses in both forward (field) and established hospitals. As far as actual battlefield service is concerned, the bugle evolved into the preferred method of relaying orders under fire. Its sound was more distinctive, carried further, could be relayed down the line by other buglers, and only required one musician to be in close proximity to unit commanders. This did two things; it freed the other field musicians (fifers and drummers) to act as markers, guides, stretcher-bearers, and messengers on the field, or to act as nurses at the hospital. In the 125th OVI, the only musician that sustained a combat related wound (resulting in death) was at the battle of Kennesaw Mountain while he was retrieving wounded comrades from the field. Is this the rule for all musicians of both armies? No. Are there accounts of Musicians following their unit's battle line either playing or actually fighting, Yes; however, according to my research, this is by far the most prevalent.

[HOG.EYE.MAN]

Re: musician's saber (field use)

Here's some information regarding the duties of a musician or bandsmen:

"Military bandsmen had two kinds of responsibilities during the Civil War. In addition to playing for dress parades, guard mount, morning colors, reviews, funerals, and the like, band musicians served as stretcher bearers. When their units were engaged in battle, bandsmen often put away their instruments and assisted regimental and brigade surgeons with amputations and other medical operations in the field hospitals set up behind the lines."

Here's some evidence of a musician from the 26th North Carolina Band (Julius A. Leinbach) serving the wounded during the first and second day of Gettysburg. The 26th N.C. suffered 3/4 wounded or killed on July 1, 1863. I found this account to be very interesting to read. Check it out!

Musician Julius A. Leinbach
26th North Carolina Band

"Julius A. Leinbach of the 26th North Carolina Band vividly described what it was like to be a bandsman during the battle of Gettysburg. Leinbach's account was based on his war diary."

"It was therefore with heavy hearts that we went about our duties caring for the wounded. We worked until 11 o'clock that night...At 3 o'clock [the next morning] I was up again and at work. The second day our regiment was not engaged [because casualties were so high], but we were busily occupied all day in our sad tasks [of caring for the wounded]. While thus engaged, in the afternoon, we were sent...to play for the men [who were not injured], thus perhaps, [to] cheer them somewhat...We accordingly went to the regiment and found the men much more cheerful than we were ourselves. We played for some time, the 11th N.C. Band playing with us, and the men cheered us lustily. Heavy cannonading was going on at the time, though not in our immediate front. We learned afterwards, from Northern papers, that our playing had been heard across the lines and caused wonder that we should play while fighting was going on around us. Some little while after we left, a bomb struck and exploded very close to the place where we had been standing, no doubt having been intended for us. We got back to camp after dark and found many men in need of [medical] attention. Some of those whom we had tried to care for during the day had died during our absence....We continued our administrations until late at night and early the next morning."

Neat stuff!

Robert Garofalo & Mark Elrod, A pictorial history of Civil War era Musical Instruments & Military Bands (Pictorial Histories Publishing Company Charleston, West Virginia, 1985) p. 56.

[RyanBWeddle]

Re: musician's saber (field use)

Great post Aaron!

--

Back to the matter at hand...

Most of the images we see of musicians decked out w/ swords, sashes, etc. are either early camp images or garrison images. Rarely on active campaign would you see these musicians wearing these swords, especially when you are toting around a drum, etc. and because they did serve 'double duty' during battles as wounded bearers . . .

Here is another early war (June 1861) of the Band of the 8th New York State Militia, the German Rifles, swords are prominent, however this is a early camp image, taken before the march to Manassas Jnctn. And we've all read about how early war troops threw away gear that weighed them down ...


Interesting to note about this photo, the dark trim on the cuffs, cap bands, collars, etc. is actually a dark green . . .

Also if you want to learn more about musicians in general, I highly recommend you get a copy of Dennis Keesee's book Too Young to Die


It has lots of great documentation on musicians and young soldiers . . .
You can purchase a copy here, scroll down to see it.

http://blueacornpress.com/newrelease2.htm

[HOG.EYE.MAN]

Re: musician's saber (field use)

I've seen many a farby drummer carrying their musician's saber into battle with them.... ive had an argument on the authenticity of this with a few such drummers and they are convinced that their saber was a part of their uniform that they not only carry but use in the field of battle... I must know... is this so?

Travis,

In the book "A pictorial history of Civil War era Musical Instruments & Military Bands," only one image out of 25 shows evidence of a saber being carried. In this image, only the Drum Major is wearing the sword. (6th Michigan Regimental Band.) All 25 images are a mix of Federal and Confederate bandsmen (fife and drum & Brass Bands) on campaign or in garrison.

Even though Ryan provided us with that classic image, I would have to agree with him and say, musician swords carried on the field would be uncommon and very rare.

Here is something I think we could all use some clarity on though, what is the deal with claiming that company music was used as stretcher bearers? Is this true, or just something picked up from the movies? I am aware of band members were used as such, but don't you need company music for directing orders and such?

Jeff,

Company musicians became bandsmen once the regiment was formed and trainning began. Company musicians came together to form a Regimental fife and drum band.

"Union and Confederate army regulations authorized each infantry company to have two field musicians, usually a drummer and a fifer. Company drummers and fifers (who were humorously called "sheepskin fiddlers" and "straw-blowers") were used to form a regimental drum corps. A regiment at full strengh could provide a drum corps of 10 drummers and 10 fifers under the leadership of a drum major (a non-commissioned officer)."

Robert Garofalo & Mark Elrod,A pictorial history of Civil War era Musical Instruments & Military Bands. (Pictorial Histories Publishing Company, 1985)