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  • Georgia Armory Rifle

    There is a picture of what is identified as a Georgia Armory Rifle on pages 42 and 43 of EOG: Arms and Equipment of the Confederacy that bears a close resemblance to the reproduction rifle generally known as the Remington "Zouave." The only differences would seem to be the lack of an eagle forward of the hammer on the Georgia Armory and a slightly different bayonet lug.
    As with the "Zouave" rifle, the Georgia Armory rifle appears to be an updated M1841 Mississippi rifle, with some M1855 parts, such as the small patchbox, the barrel bands, and the nosecap. The picture in EOG is consistent with description of Georgia Armory rifles in Flayderman's and Confederate Longarms and Pistols.
    I have seem numerous pictures of CSA Mississippi style rifles with the same general features as the EOG Georgia Armory rifle, particularly the lockplate, barrel and stock, with variations in the bands, sights, and with or without (generally without) the M1855 style patchbox.
    Unfortunately, I have not had the opportunity to examine any original CSA Mississippi style rifles, with the exception of the few examples seen through glass at the Gettysburg NP visitors center.
    I am interested in CSA Mississippi style rifles because some of the units in which some of my Confederate ancestors served were issued Mississippi style rifles. While recognizing that Enfields were far more common in Confederate ranks than either Federal Armory or Contract Mississippis or CSA Mississippi style rifles and that many or most events do not allow any rifles to be used on the field (except perhaps by cavalry), I am wondering about the feasibility of de-farbing the so-called Zouave into a Georgia Armory rifle for use in living history demonstrations based on research into units documented as having used Mississippi style rifles or at events where involving units documented as having Mississippi style rifles. Particularly with respect to the lockplate, it appears that the reproduction could more readily be de-farbed as a Georgia Armory rifle than as the Remington it is supposed to a reproduce. As my research has been limited largely to photographs and written description, I am hoping someone with first-hand knowledge of Confederate weapons can offer an opinion on this.
    Mick Cole
    Commander, Guy-Thurmon Camp SCV
    Rochester, NY

  • #2
    Re: Georgia Armory Rifle

    Hallo!

    IMHO, Georgia Armory rifles are some of the most "problematical" of Southern made rifles as there are no surviving specimens that are entirely Georgia Armory made- their being typically collections of parts such as US marked buttplates, barrels, bands, and seemingly parts cannibalized from other other guns with CS manufactured parts as needed.

    It is believed that the particular GA rifle is a hybrid U.S. M1855 "copy" where the CS departed from their "norm" in making relative "copies" of the U.S. M1841 and occassionally the Enfield Short Rifle (and disregarding the Harpers Ferry M1855 rifle based Fayetteville made rifles).

    The Remington M1863 Contract Rifle (aka "Zouave") is itself sort of a hybrid- being a development of Remington's contract to make M1841's and their doing their own thing as it were combining elements of both the M1841 and M1855 rifles into a new beastie.
    Using an repro "Zouave" for the basis of a Georgia Armory type M1855 clone would not work "well," IMHO because:

    1. the Remington so-called "Zouave" parts such as buttplate, patchbox, trigger guard are similar but not the same dimensions as the M1855 Rifle

    2. the two barrel bands and nosecap are distinctively different than the "Zouave's"

    3. the lockplate would need stripped and restamped with "Ga. Armory" over say "1862 or ""1863" or "1864."

    All in all, IMHO, I would rather go with trying to make a reproduction M1841 into say a CS Ashville, or M.A. Baker, or C. Chapman, or Davis & Bozeman, or Dickson, Nelson & Co, or Gilliam & Miller, or H.C. Lamb, or Mendenhall, Jones & Gardner, or J.P. Murray, "Mississippi clone" rifle.
    Or, for that matter, even one of the mid 1850's and early 1860's U.S. reworked M1841's with rear sights and bayonet mounts (or bored to .58).

    Others' mileage may vary...

    Curt
    Curt Schmidt
    In gleichem Schritt und Tritt, Curt Schmidt

    -Hard and sharp as flint...secret, and self-contained, and solitary as an oyster.
    -Haplogroup R1b M343 (Subclade R1b1a2 M269)
    -Pointless Folksy Wisdom Mess, Oblio Lodge #1
    -Vastly Ignorant
    -Often incorrect, technically, historically, factually.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Georgia Armory Rifle

      Also, in addition to what Curt has included, from what I have on the "Georgia Armory Rifles" the trigger guard is an Enfield type, with a separate trigger plate from the bow, which is one piece in itself rather than the two piece of the U.S. design.

      The "patch box" also is of a different design. The bands on a Zouave, too, are rounded, where as the G.A.R. has flat bands like the 55 rifle. The nose cap, to should be of the 1855 "long" type, rather than the Zouave style which is like that on a rifle-musket.

      You can probably use the barrel, the lock, buttplate and the sight, but you'll need a new stock to mount it on, which is problematic in itself since not even Dunlap offers one. You'll need new bands, new nose cap, new patch box, new trigger guard, and new trigger plate.

      I think that the image in EOG is misleading.
      ~ Chris Hubbard
      Robert L. Miller Award Winner No. 28 May, 2007
      [url]www.acwsa.org[/url]

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Georgia Armory Rifle

        I gave this a try a few month ago with a Zouave I got for a really good price. I used some parts from S&S firearms for the 1855 rifle. The stock required a far amount of rework and I was still unable to get proper fits on the barrel bands. Ultimately I ended up with a sort of Frankenstein rifle that doesn't look half bad from a distance of 200 yards or more. :) The entire affair was a bit of a waste of time in the end.
        Jake Beckstrand
        CWPT
        Member of The Iron Rooster Mess

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Georgia Armory Rifle

          Thank you for the very useful information, gentlemen! Your willingness to share your insights is greatly appreciated.
          Any thoughts on the quality of the "Taylor" made Dixon Nelson reproduction at http://www.customizedcwguns.com/.
          Mick Cole

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Georgia Armory Rifle

            I can at least tell you their prices are well outside the realm of sanity.
            John Spain
            4th Tennessee / 25th Indiana

            sigpic
            "If you surrender, you will be treated as prisoners of war, but if I have to storm your works, you may expect no quarter." Forrest

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Georgia Armory Rifle

              The price Blair has is about the going rate for a cutsom firearm.
              ~ Chris Hubbard
              Robert L. Miller Award Winner No. 28 May, 2007
              [url]www.acwsa.org[/url]

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Georgia Armory Rifle

                Its all about the fayetteville for CSA arms people. Got too love that fancy "S" hammer


                Brad

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Georgia Armory Rifle

                  Hallo!

                  Correct.

                  The prices are consistent with "authentic" reproduction custom built pieces. (Traditionally, generally, a concept unknown to and outside of most reenacting and living history cultures.)

                  Curt
                  Former ACW Gunbuilder Mess
                  Curt Schmidt
                  In gleichem Schritt und Tritt, Curt Schmidt

                  -Hard and sharp as flint...secret, and self-contained, and solitary as an oyster.
                  -Haplogroup R1b M343 (Subclade R1b1a2 M269)
                  -Pointless Folksy Wisdom Mess, Oblio Lodge #1
                  -Vastly Ignorant
                  -Often incorrect, technically, historically, factually.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Georgia Armory Rifle

                    A well known NE collector and N-SSA collector has a custom Fayetteville rifle he built himself that is indistinguishable to my eye from the originals I have seen. He says he has been offered $30K for it from collectors convinced it was a minty original and didn't care that it was a good repro. In a sense, you could say that that the day two fools truly met. One for the outlandish offer and the other for refusing it. At least the gunmaker could claim the high moral ground by preventing that one from ending up sold to a museum someplace as an original.. I wonder how many would take the same tact? We all know the answer to that one. Fakes are abundant.

                    One well known gunsmith says he intentionally puts mistakes in his de-farbed repros to prevent this from happening. I can verify the mistakes are there as advertised. This is equally incredulous in the opposite direction...meaning who could mistake a commercial de-farbed repro for any original?Your first clue is when you pick it up and it weights 20% more than it should.

                    Heaven forbid anybody question my commitment to "getting it right" in the musket department, but one must factor in the usage and your motivation for doing so. As Curt points out most of this activity is outside of the ACW and LH culture. I would be pleasantly surprised if most serious enactors just bothered to buff off the modern markings and relocate the serial numbers out of sight. And them made an effort to carriy a musket that somewhat reflected what was in the ranks at the time of the event portrayal. IE: a smoothbore musket.So the consensus as far as the Georgia rifle is "pick another project" unless your pockets are pretty deep to create something most events will prohibit you from using. Just my thoughts for what they are worth...don't do an Enfield either as they are a tad too de-rigueur.
                    Last edited by Craig L Barry; 11-15-2007, 03:45 PM.
                    Craig L Barry
                    Editor, The Watchdog, a non-profit 501[c]3
                    Co-author (with David Burt) Suppliers to the Confederacy
                    Author, The Civil War Musket: A Handbook for Historical Accuracy
                    Member, Company of Military Historians

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Georgia Armory Rifle

                      I know this is an old thread, but I just got an old copy of Albaugh's book "Confederate Arms" and there is a bad photo of a Georgia Armory rifle. It is a standard Mississippi with no patch box and .58 cal. Lock is marked "Ga. Armory 1862".
                      Scott D. Rose
                      Gen. Jubal A. Early Camp 556, SCV
                      SCVMC 3rd Battalion, Company D

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Georgia Armory Rifle

                        Are there any other known picture of Georgia Armory Rifles othere than the EOG pictures? I have experience building and repairing muzzel loading weapons and metal working. I am crazy enough to jump on this project.

                        Mr. Johnson, please remember to use your first and last name for every post. It is one of the AC's "Big Three" rules.



                        You can easily set an "auto signature" that will show up every time you make a post. It can be found in your settings. Thanks, Herb Coats Moderator
                        Last edited by Coatsy; 08-21-2012, 12:18 PM. Reason: Need first and last name. Them's the rules
                        Steven Johnson

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Georgia Armory Rifle

                          Originally posted by Stevenjohnson9851 View Post
                          Are there any other known picture of Georgia Armory Rifles othere than the EOG pictures? I have experience building and repairing muzzel loading weapons and metal working. I am crazy enough to jump on this project.
                          I have some copies of photos from a book on confederate long arms. Will post when I get a chance.
                          Mick Cole

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Georgia Armory Rifle

                            this any help?

                            [FONT="Book Antiqua"]"Grumpy" Dave Towsen
                            Past President Potomac Legion
                            Long time member Columbia Rifles
                            Who will care for Mother now?[/FONT]

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Georgia Armory Rifle

                              Hallo!

                              Confederate Rifles & Muskets by John Murphy and Howard Madaus. 1996.

                              Chapter XIX, pp. 249-266

                              Curt
                              Curt Schmidt
                              In gleichem Schritt und Tritt, Curt Schmidt

                              -Hard and sharp as flint...secret, and self-contained, and solitary as an oyster.
                              -Haplogroup R1b M343 (Subclade R1b1a2 M269)
                              -Pointless Folksy Wisdom Mess, Oblio Lodge #1
                              -Vastly Ignorant
                              -Often incorrect, technically, historically, factually.

                              Comment

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