English Imported Gear

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: Isaac and Campbell Pack Straps

Chris,

I believe that you are referring to the overcoat straps that go with the I&C pack. As explained to me by Nick ************, the straps can be used separate from the pack as a crude harness to carry a bedroll.

I have a set that Nick made to go with my I&C pack (both of these are top notch reproductions, by the way) and I have tried this on a couple of occasions. My results using this type of bedroll were mixed. I found that, unless the roll was sufficiently large in diameter, the straps had a tendency to slip off of the roll. My solution to this was to (1) make sure the roll was good and thick and (2) use either a strap or rope to tied the two straps together.

If I can, I'll get an image of this "rig" this weekend.

[James the Haggard Ranger]

Re: Isaac and Campbell Pack Straps

Chris,

Check out this link for a little background on the Trotter Knapsack (http://www.95th-rifles.co.uk/knapsack.htm), and (http://home.vicnet.net.au/~second95/equipmentlist.htm). Please notice the load a British Soldier was expected to carry in Spain in 1812 most of it in his knapsack.
The Issac & Campbell Knapsack is a simplified Trotter Knapsack. The Trotter was modified over the years with the Issac & Campbell verson being the final evolution of this Knapsack.The orginial strap system for the Trotter is similar to the U.S. Mexican War soft knapsack (Kebbler). The Trotter Knapsack was introduced into the British Army in 1805 and was not replaced until the 1870's.

I hope this helps some.

Thanks,

James Wooten, Interpretive Ranger
Pickett's Mill Battlefield State Historic Site

[toptimlrd]

Re: Isaac and Campbell Pack Straps

Chris,

I believe that you are referring to the overcoat straps that go with the I&C pack. As explained to me by Nick ************, the straps can be used separate from the pack as a crude harness to carry a bedroll.

I have a set that Nick made to go with my I&C pack (both of these are top notch reproductions, by the way) and I have tried this on a couple of occasions. My results using this type of bedroll were mixed. I found that, unless the roll was sufficiently large in diameter, the straps had a tendency to slip off of the roll. My solution to this was to (1) make sure the roll was good and thick and (2) use either a strap or rope to tied the two straps together.

If I can, I'll get an image of this "rig" this weekend.

John,

One way to get the necesary girth is to simply fold the blanket one additional time before rolling, it makes for a very short roll but does allow the overcoat straps to cinch down securely.

[onemoreb]

Re: Isaac and Campbell Pack Straps

Thank You to all your responses. I really appreciate all the help.
John, if you get the image I would be grateful.

[tiger_rifles]

Need Help Dateing "I&C" Markings!!!

Hello All, A few years back I remember reading a post ref. dateing Isaac & Campbell gear by its markings. I can not find this thread now.
I have picked up a I&C cap pouch, same style as the 1845 mdl, but it mounts to a waist belt by 2 leather straps w/buckles, is not slanted 45%, and is over all a little bigger. Front is stamped; "S.ISAAC" over "CAMPBELL" over "& Co." over smaller letters "EN" Can not read the rest. Back is stamped "WINTERS" over "IRO" maybe "M" can not read the rest, over "AL" can not read the rest.
I plan to reproduce one and test it, seems like it would work very well.
But first want to be sure it is from the CW time frame.
Can anyone help me ID it? Any guesses as to what the rest of the stamping is?
Also looking for a company that could reproduce these leather stamps. The lettering is very odd and not like the classic I&C "London" block letters we have all seen.

Many thanks, Paul Bennett
Tiger_Rifles

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Re: Need Help Dateing "I&C" Markings!!!

Paul,

1. It would help considerably to have a few pics.

2. My understanding is that the S. Isaac and Campbell Co. was only ACW era; that the company was started as a front to move British goods to the South.

Paul

[Toney]

Re: Need Help Dateing "I&C" Markings!!!

Paul,

If the stamp is Winter Iron Works AL, it is dated to 1960’s when a company in England made up marks and dropped them on the US collecting market. There was an article in the North/South Trader about 15 or 20 years ago that listed all of the fake marks. I have seen an I & C mark on a musket sling along with the Winter stamp and the I & C stamp had a double line border in a rectangular shape. This stamp is showing up on the 1880’s US musket sling copies that are being sold as Enfield slings.

There could be a third stamp on the sling as well and it is CS inspected, Montgomery and this is the third and finial stamp used by the English firm. I did not know of any cap pouches with these marks and I would be interested in knowing if it is the stamp I described.

Joe Toney

[Richmond Depot]

Re: Need Help Dateing "I&C" Markings!!!

Paul and Paul,

Back in the 1960's a number of items came over from England bearing the markings of I & C. They were identified as being wartime manufactured surplus but were in reality fakes.

I too, read an article on this somewhere, or perhaps it was during a conversation with the SR. curator of the MOC that I learned this.

Best,

[Toney]

Re: Need Help Dateing "I&C" Markings!!!

Scott,

I disagree with you that they were war time manufacture, since several of the slings I have viewed had the funny steel rivets. I do not remember any of the war time examples having rivets of any kind.

I am not up on what if anything I & C did after the war but they may have continued on making items for British regiments and this may be where they came from but I seriously doubt they are from the American Civil War period. I may get proved wrong here.

By the way there is one of the slings I am talking about in the fakes and mistakes collection in the AHC. This sling has all three marks in question.

Joe Toney

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Re: Need Help Dateing "I&C" Markings!!!

Back in the 1960's a number of items came over from England bearing the markings of I & C. They were identified as being wartime manufactured surplus but were in reality fakes.

Joe,

I believe if you read Scott's statement, he clarified it by stating these were in reality "fakes".

I also thought the S. Isaac & Campbell company was a marketing front, they themselves buying "out-dated British surplus". As far as I know they were not producing goods for the British Army.

Paul B.

[Toney]

Re: Need Help Dateing "I&C" Markings!!!

Scott,

I read it a hurry and I reread it this morning and it is an oops. Sorry.

Thanks Paul.

Joe

[tiger_rifles]

Re: Need Help Dateing "I&C" Markings!!!

Thanks to all for the information Gentlemen. This site is truely more informed than any Google or internet site I have found in the last 6 months of Searching!
I tried to take some pictures of the stampings but my picture box would not bring them out. Yes this pouch has a double line box around the "I&C" stamp with the corners clipped. It also has marks on the right of the stamping, from the edge of the stamp itself. I take this to mean they hammered this in after it was made and did not press it in as it should be. The back stamp does appear to be the "Winters" stamp you spoke of. I guess the real deal breaker is the 4 metal rivets that hold the back/belt straps on,(thank you for that detail describing the faked rifle sling!).
I did a liitle more research last night and found that pouches very much like this one, in white buff and brown, were used as pistol cart. pouches for British Officers from about 1880 to The Great War.
So this is a fake! I guess it is back to making Brunswick Ball Pouches!
Many Thanks! To those that are in the know.
Paul Bennett
Tiger_Rifles

[Thomas Alleman]

I & C Knapsack

I was wondering when these were shipped and how many and where shipped, early in the war? I know that Shiloh has one so where they common early war?

Thomas Alleman

[Dan Wambaugh]

Re: Issac and Cambel Knapsack

Hey Tom,

I'm not sure if you've checked through already but the answer to your question may be in the McRae papers featured on this website:

http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=91

There is all sorts of information coming out of these documents about imported goods from England that we previously did not know, and a little searching may find the very answer you're looking for.


Best,

[Garrett Silliman]

Re: Issac and Cambel Knapsack

Tom,

Additionally, here's a link to an older thread where this topic was discussed.

http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11509&highlight=Isaac+Campbell

Good luck, Garrett