English Imported Gear

[WBailey]

Re: British snake-buckle belts

John is right. A lot of ex Canadian Military equipment came south and has been put into the Civil War relic markets all of course post war. Many Canadian regimental marked pieces show up at shows.

Wes Bailey

[GaReb]

Re: British snake-buckle belts

Yeah I meant Mississippi. Late when I posted and I was just trying to get it all down. Also he bought them at an estate sale, if that would help clear anything up. I have pictures how do I go about posting them?

Pvt. Chris Anderson
5th Geo. Infantry

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: British snake-buckle belts

Hallo Kameraden!

Not that it was theeintent of the reply, but one will find far more "Enfields" than "snake buckles..."

Of course, I am not in a position to know or question this sale...
But I would add the EBAY Caveat that probably second only to the use of the word "RARE," "purchased from an estate sale" is common verbage (followed by "Purchased from an estate sale- I know nothing about it." and
which maybe third to "I was told").

I not disparaging or knocking what I don't know here, but EBAY is... well, EBAY!

I hope and trust this purchase is sound (but doubt it).

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt

[GaReb]

Re: British snake-buckle belts

I seriously doubt the historical value of the piece as well but I got two belts for a great price so I grabbed them. If they're junk I'll dump them off on Ebay as fast as I got them and get more out of them than I payed. If I happened to get lucky and I can verify Confederate provenance then it'll work out extremely well. How do I go about uploading the pictures? I'm sure those will help for identification.

Pvt. Chris Anderson
5th Geo. Infantry

[Iron Scout]

Re: British snake-buckle belts

Chris,

I'd love to see pics of the belts. I viewed a very large collection of I&C goods today and learned quite a bit to boot. Likewise, I've been on a snake belt research binge here lately. There are some construction details that pertain to CW era snake belts that are very unique. You can post the photos off your desktop here if you'd like or email them to me directly. From my understanding though, the only documented belts have been those with either the I&C stamp or unmarked (but ID'd). As others have stated, there are several nationalities that used these belts in various configurations for numerous years.

Regards,

Neill Rose
PLHA
Love & Wienges
ironscout@charter.net

[Toney]

Re: British snake-buckle belts

Neill,

May be you can answer this question. I have heard a rumor about some faked Isaac and Campbell marked items being sold in the collector markets. Is there any truth to this rumor? One person who was said to have some for sale that was questionable was Juno, from the Pickett lawsuit fame.

Thanks for your time

Joe Toney

[Iron Scout]

Re: British snake-buckle belts

Joe,

I really can't comment as I haven't heard that before. There are actually very few marked I&C products on the collector's market to begin with so I'm sure they're scrutinized quite closely.

Neill Rose
PLHA
L&W

[Jimmayo]

Re: British snake-buckle belts

About 20 years ago there was someone faking the I&C stamp on snake buckle belts. Friend of mine bought one. The marking did not correspond to the authentic markings but had the same information. If you had never seen the real thing you wouldn't know the difference. There are probably some of these fakes still out there.

[Iron Scout]

Re: British snake-buckle belts

About 20 years ago there was someone faking the I&C stamp on snake buckle belts. Friend of mine bought one. The marking did not correspond to the authentic markings but had the same information. If you had never seen the real thing you wouldn't know the difference. There are probably some of these fakes still out there.

Scarey but not suprising. This leads me to another unrelated question though. Jim, have you or anyone you know ever dug/seen a brass trouser button marked "S. Isaacs Campbell & Co"? There's a reason I'm asking. Thanks for the insight.

Neill Rose
PLHA
L&W

[Toney]

Re: British snake-buckle belts

Neill and Jim,

The one I heard about was a CS cap box that supposed to have been made from an old I&C marked cartridge box. The box was said to be a confederate piece but the stamp was applied later. The boxes that Juno was selling were marked I&C Enfield cartridge boxes but no tins. I did see the Enfield boxes myself, and thought it was odd to have no tins.

If this is true what is real?

Joe Toney

[1stMaine]

Re: British snake-buckle belts

Comrade Jon,

A good portion, if not most, of the British pattern cartridge boxes imported into this country during the CW period had the cap box mounted on the front face, under the flap and towards the end nearest the wearer (the right, looking at the box). These were aften removed and belt loops added so as to be worn in the "American" style on the belt. The boxes will alle exhibit a row of holes where the stitches were removed.
The problem is that both sides did this. The Mass AG reports list several thousand boxes converted in this manner alone, so using this criterian as a means of ID'ing a box or cap pouch as either "CS" or "US" without a solid provenance is unreliable. Massachusetts alone purchased over 10,000 sets of English accouterments, and issued almost all of them. Other states also purchased them, so although the initial reaction upon finding a snake buckle or box or whatever might be to label it "CS", one must needs make certain that no Federal forces were in the area. The only items that I would bet were "CS" usage only would be the I&C knapsacks. To date, I have found no instance of Federal importations and/or use of the knapsack. Any other items, though, cannot, as I said, be considered absolutely "CS" without solid provenance.
respects,

[GaReb]

Re: British snake-buckle belts

Well I just got an email from Iron Scout who deemed them to not be ACW. That kills the value for me but I suspected they weren't when i bought them. Would anyone like to buy them? I'm selling both of them for $250. Anyone interested shoot me an email.

Pvt. Chris Anderson
5th Geo. Infantry

[Bart]

Re: British snake-buckle belts

hello all,
this is what I got from the Belgian Army museum:
Fonson started as button and medalmaker before 1830 (french period). this evolved to a big allround company for the military. from buttons and medals, to swords and sadlles, headgear and even complete uniforms. the end off the factory was in the 1970's...
I asked some details about the snake buckle. if i get the info, I will post it.

Bart Soons

[Vuhginyuh]

Re: British snake-buckle belts

This British Hussar belt is on ebay now. I have no idea what the period is.

[sivart]

I&C knapsack w/ Fed?

I have used the search button on this forum, and didn’t see anything, and I have searched books but nothing answers my question :angry_smi .

Is there any documented proof that a Federal unit might have carried an S. Isaac and Campbell knapsack. Maybe they were issued late war? I’m sure there area accounts of captured ones, but I’m looking for possible issued. Maybe they were only confed issued? If anybody has any info or can point me in the right direction.