English Imported Gear

[Matt_E_Wright]

Re: Help with I&C Knapsack

The mess tin cover should have leather loops (like the loops that hold the overcoat straps on top of the federal double bag knapsack) and your I&C pack should have two rectangular metal loops as well. A leather strap running around your messkit through both the loops on the cover and the rectangular loops on the knapsack will attach the messkit to the knapsack.

My question is:

While we know that both English knapsacks and messkits were imported; is there any evidence that any Soldier in the American Civil War ever actually carried the messkit attached to the knapsack in the style of their British counterparts?

and my follow on question is:

What are the odds that a Confederate Soldier would be issued both an English knapsack and an English messkit? Were enough messkits imported to plausibly make this combination PEC?

Thanks,
Matt Wright

The "waxing nostalgic for the 'canteen half attached to the outside of the canteen' debate" Mess

[Jefferson Guards]

Re: Help with I&C Knapsack

If you check out this document you will see that the knapsacks and mess tins were being purchased as a unit

http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4149&d=1171302322

Further research and crunching the numbers indicates that there were at least 20 thousand English knapsacks in the south prior to the battle of Sharpsburg.

Every communication, manifest, or invoice I have seen lists the knapsack and mess tin as a single unit. I have never found any evidence that the mess tins were removed from the knapsacks and issued seperately.

Now if we can only find a tinsmith willing to do a proper reproduction of a messtin!

I have also included a photograph of an original mess tin cover in the GNMP collection

[Dignann]

Re: Help with I&C Knapsack

Further research and crunching the numbers indicates that there were at least 20 thousand English knapsacks in the south prior to the battle of Sharpsburg.

Brian,

Just out of curiosity, what sources did you consult and how did you arrive at that number?

Eric

[Jefferson Guards]

Re: Help with I&C Knapsack

The sources I consulted to come up with that number were the McRae documents and Neill Rose can also attest to those same numbers.

And these numbers jive with the "Abstract of summary statement showing quantity and value of army supplies purchased and shipped by Maj. C. Huse on account Confederate States Government" which was indorsed on February 3, 1863. In it, it lists 34,655 knapsacks, complete as being purchased and shipped.

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: Help with I&C Knapsack

Brian,

Did you note whether or not the overcoat straps were also included, as well?

Thanks!

[Jefferson Guards]

Re: Help with I&C Knapsack

John,

I guess it all depends on how you interpret the available information. On the referenced invoice it lists the item as "Knapsacks, straps, mess tin + mess tin covers, complete" other records list them as "Knapsacks, complete." So, are these "straps" that are being listed, the overcoat straps, or are they the straps that allows a soldier to wear the knapsack?

[Rob Weaver]

Re: Help with I&C Knapsack

Forgive my ignorance: How does that contraption button around the messkit? Does it fold around the back and button? Is it tarred canvas?

[Jefferson Guards]

Re: Help with I&C Knapsack

The mess tin fits into the cover and then the cover is buttoned closed enclosing the mess tin inside. The cover in the GNMP collection is of painted linen.

[Malingerer]

Re: Help with I&C Knapsack

Matt, et al.,
So, am I correct in understanding your instructions as indicating that the tins + cover are strapped to the top of the knapsack. Forgive my ignorance, but I always had the impression that they were strapped to the back of the knapsack. Thanks for the input.

[Dignann]

Re: Help with I&C Knapsack

Peter,

Although these photos are not of an American Civil War I&C knapsack and mess tin, they are from roughly the same period and of roughly the same style. I'm no expert on British goods, such as I&C packs, so if this is wrong, someone please point it out.

This particular set is in the The Green Howards Museum (Alexandra, Princess of Wales's Own Yorkshire Regiment - 19th Foot) in Richmond, North Yorkshire.

Eric

[Malingerer]

Re: Help with I&C Knapsack

Eric,
Those photos help tremendously. All I have to do now is come up with a strap and I'm all set. Thank you.

[Rob Weaver]

Re: Help with I&C Knapsack

That is a big help. What I know about British field gear you could probably put in a thimble. I do have a British messkit, though. Does anyone make a pattern for the cover or should I use the photos and take the measurements from my kit?

[Iron Scout]

Re: Help with I&C Knapsack

Folks,

Well, I couldn't have said it better myself Brian. Yes, after adding up the Huse invoices in the McRae Papers, there were no less than 20K packs with tins, straps, complete in the Southern state prior to Sharpsburg. If you'll go back to my original posting on the Papers, you'll see that the Papers challenge many of our notions regarding the Blockade, especially early. PS-stay tuned for a big McRae announcement soon!

Regards,

Neill Rose
PLHA

[drsimm1776]

Isaac Campbell Knapsack Hardware

:confused_
I need a supplier for the Isacc Campbell knap sack hardware - i.e. the brass hooks for the straps etc.
Anyone know of a supplier?
Don

[Matt_E_Wright]

Re: Help with I&C Knapsack

An interpretation question...

For those of you with access to the McRae papers, are there multiple invoices (besides the one that's been posted) that specifically mention mess kits? Or, do the majority simply say "knapsack, complete" or words to that effect?

Just curious,
Matt Wright