English Imported Gear

[DougCooper]

Re: Issac and Cambel Knapsack

Isaac and Campbell equipment was coming over by late 61, as per the McCrae papers cited in this thread. Knapsack hardware has been dug in the CS positions during the May 1862 campaign around Corinth. See refs here on the NSA website: http://www.nsalliance.org/uniforms/csuniforms.htm

[Slouch]

Re: Issac and Cambel Knapsack

what I find interesting is that leather knapsack pieces were being shipped. These parts were listed in a thread on this forum about leather weights by a member citing the McRae papers. Makes one wonder if English style knapsacks were being constructed here from imported materials.

[1stMo Drummer]

Re: Issac and Cambel Knapsack

You may also want to try contacting Robert Serio of Missouri Boot and Shoe as i have recently been talking to him about his reproducing one for me and he seems to have an amount of info on the subject...

[erik]

Re: Help with I&C Knapsack

I have seen painted linen covers and leather covers for canteens. They are fitted by their strap to the top oif the knapsack, vertically when carrying rations in them and horizontally when not.
The straps refer to all of the staps to convey or attach the blanklet or overcoat to the knapsack.
Erik Simundson

[jthofner]

English Leathers

Can anyone help on the issue on English Acouterments sent over and used by Southern Soldiers. I know of the black colored leathers used by Southern Troops with the enfield box, snake belt, etc., but was wondering if the white/buff Acouterments used by British Regular troops were also acquired by Southern Troops and used?

[DBURT]

Re: English Leathers

Sir,
Yes, white buff accoutrements certainly were imported into the Confederacy.
I have just recently examined a white buff cap pocket in the MOC, along with a white buff swordbelt with snake " hook" catch.
There is also a white buff "expense pouch" (ball bag) in the Atlanta history center.
There are numerous invoices that mention "buff" accoutrements, no doubt some of these were white buff

Dave Burt, ACWS, England

[Iron Scout]

Re: English Leathers

Folks,

If you'll search for the answers on other posts, we'll clearly see buff accoutrements were coming into the South at various times. While they were probably the least imported vs black bridle, there are certainly extant examples available for viewing in certain collections. Note the attached images courtesy of the MOC. What we call a cap pouch the English call a "cap pocket". Yes, I do have permission to share FYI.

The buff closure straps are off the Overton pack in their collection.

Dave, the swordbelt you viewed (also in EOG) is not an I&C pattern but rather something VERY odd and warranting of it's own thread.

Cheers,

Neill Rose
PLHA

[Iron Scout]

Re: English Leathers

Folks,

See attached...
PS-Thanks to the Mods for merging all these various English threads; excellent information!

Neill Rose
PLHA

[DBURT]

Re: English Leathers

Neill,
Just the man...Do you have the history of the cap pocket in your pic?
I believe it was misidentified as a coin purse when it was found?
I managed to lose my notes on this item when I viewed it, but I believe also that it belonged to a soldier called Davis?
Hope you can help..

Dave Burt, ACWS, UK.

[Iron Scout]

Re: English Leathers

Dave,

Yes, I think it was a Davis from the 37th NCT. The paperwork also noted "1864". Robert Hancock has a nice spec sheet on the original for those interested. The finials on these pockets are very unique and nothing at all like their American counterparts.

Cheers,

Neill Rose
PLHA

[erik]

Re: English Leathers

English cartridges boxes had tins to hold 50 rds. and a pouch on the facve of the box to khold aportion of the caps issued for those rounds. The balance of the 60 rds required were in an expense pouch worn on the right front. Caps were carried in a pouch on the cartridge pouch sling.
Belts and slings were white buff leather for Guards and Infantry of the line and blackened buff leather for Rifle Regiments.
Belts were closed by the universal locket plate with a crown in the centre, excepting Rifle regiments that retained the snake hook still used today.
Snake hooks were purportedly sold overseas to prevent any interest being assumed by HM government.
The blackened buff leather was quick to fade to a brown appearance without care. I have a swatch from an original belt which can provide a sample of the color and texture.
I shall try to produce a sample photo for examination.
The cap pouch used on the belt (one can hardly call it a box) is exactly similar to the pouch cap container or a pouch belt cap pouch without the mounting. These pouches were issued to the Canadian Militia and The Indian Army during this period.
I will include pictures of the original Indian Army pouch and the type worn by the Canadian Militia in a further post.
These pouches featured bridle leather, sheepskin leather linigs and a single strap to hold them to the belt.

References:
Equipment For the Army, 1865. Edited by John Walter.
Photocopies of the original above.
Original photos of the Queen's Own Rifles 1856 - 1866.
Photros of original equipment.

Erik Simundson
4th Michihgan

[Tyler Gibson]

Re: English Leathers

My reasearch (albiet limited) points that a Confederate issued an Enfield musket, rifle, or musketoon, was issued an Enfield cartridge box, cap box, and belt, as they (mostly) came in the same boxes that the rifles came in. The Union army leaned in the direction of regulation cartridge boxes and cap boxes, but some soldiers retained the English items.

[coastaltrash]

Re: English Leathers

Tyler,
I wouldn't bet the farm on that. While Enfield boxes certainly saw a good amount of use during the ACW they did not total the number of British made weapons being used by both sides.

[jacobite8749]

Re: English Leathers

Not sure I'd bet on that either. I am sure Neill will say, muskets came in boxes, but not to my knowledge the same ones. Accoutraments, were ordered seperatley, invoices abound for them, and delivered seperatley.

[ohpkirk]

British Contractor A.G. Ross stamp

All,
I am searching for any known photographs, sketches, etc. of the A. G. Ross contractor stamp on inside of the outer flap on the p1859 cartridge boxes that were being imported during the war. I have photographs of one but the leather is in such a poor state that little can be determined other than 'A.G.'. On the knapsacks that this firm manufactured, the stamp was a circle with 'A.G. Ross' and business info (see attachment) If you have a photo or any other info on the cartridge box stamp I would be very grateful.

Thanks,
Cody Mobley