English Imported Gear

[DBURT]

Re: British Contractor A.G. Ross stamp

Ken,
Many thanks, just one question, is that Jerimine St, or Jermyn St ? If its Jermyn St, that is the same street S Isaac Campbell & Co were located on.

Dave Burt, ACWS, UK.

[Vuhginyuh]

Re: British Contractor A.G. Ross stamp

I'll search portions of the Fingal manifest. She could be a good resource for this thread. She made landfall here at least once with tons of guns, gear and uniforms.

[Iron Scout]

Re: British Contractor A.G. Ross stamp

Garrison,

I've viewed the I&C invoices for the Fingal per the McRae Papers. There's a ton of individual purchases by Huse to say the least. No direct A. Ross products mentioned although some of their products could have been in the orders. What source do you have for the Fingal's inventory on this side of the pond?

Neill Rose
PLHA

[Ken Knopp]

Re: British Contractor A.G. Ross stamp

Gentlemen,

I admit that I do not know much about infantry accoutrements but I was asked via private message from one of the people posting here to provide some information relative to the discussion. I did so. Since David Jarnagin’s name came up I asked him to take a look at the thread too. As a result, David wanted to also submit some information and so asked me to do so for him. The following is submitted by David Jarnagin via myself, Ken R Knopp. It is intended to share information relative to the above discussion.

Ross Totter knapsack (By David Janagin)
I have viewed the A. Ross trotter knapsack in the Atlanta History Center, and here is a brief overview:
First, let me say that I own an original I & C Knapsack. It is made from waxed leather except for the leather corners which are bridle (smooth out or grain side) vegetable tanned leather
As far as size the Ross knapsack at the AHC is exactly the same size as my original I & C knapsack however, the Ross knapsack is quite a bit different than my I & C in several key areas. First, are the leather corners that are not vegetable tanned leather but are instead made from buff leather that has been heavily Japanned to the point that it looks like bridle leather. The exterior straps are all buff blackened with the exception of the two straps that hold down the flap and those are “waxed” vegetable tanned leather (leather finish on the flesh or rough side of the leather). The interior straps are of whitened buff leather (these were never blackened). The ““Y”” straps are made of waxed vegetable tanned leather with “A. Ross & Co.” over “C & M 1861" stamped into bottom of the buckle strap.
I have also viewed the original knapsack at Shiloh NMP and it is done the same way as the Ross one at the Atlanta History Center in the use of leather, but there is no makers mark found. Could these two be surplus knapsacks that have been re-worked using leather of various finishes? It does make me wonder since corresponding straps are of totally different leather finishes. There was no mark of Crown ownership on either of these two knapsacks, meaning no broad arrow......

(MODERATORS: I ask that you please look at and then keep these links up. They DO NOT go to the Jarnigan Co. retail web site. They are links that go strictly to photographs and are not meant to circumvent forum rules but offered here for relative and valid educational purposes only! Ken R Knopp)

http://www.jarnaginco.com/david/artwork/english%20knapsack72.jpg

http://www.jarnaginco.com/david/artwork/english%20knapsack721.jpg

....The pictures above are not the Ross knapsack from the AHC nor the one at Shiloh, but an entirely different one from Jefferson Barracks, Mo.; the types of leather used and where they are used is as seen on the AHC and the Shiloh knapsacks. It is interesting to note that the owner added two straps somewhere along the way for a blanket roll. I do not know for sure if these are period but I really do not think they are. This knapsack was on display at Jefferson barracks some 4 or 5 years ago when I took the photos. I hope this is of value to the discussion.

David Jarnagin
(Ken R Knopp)

[DBURT]

Re: British Contractor A.G. Ross stamp

David and Ken
Thank you very much for providing wonderful information and photographs to this discussion.
It was I that got in touch with both Ken And David, for I knew from previous discussions with them,they had valuable information they could share on A Ross & Co.
I have a little more information to share on Ross & Co, courtesy of John Hopper.
The firm ended up as Hepburn Gale & Ross by 1901, and that company merged with Samuel Barrow & Sons to form Barrow Hepburn & Gale in 1920.
This firm operated out of Grange Mill Tannery in Bermondsey, London.

In May 1940, at the height of the Luftwaffe blitz on London the factory was destroyed, but the firm survived, and was still going in the 1970's

Dave Burt, ACWS, England.

[wade03]

English Imported Gear

Does anyone know if there is any pictures or descriptions of english improted haversacks around? I'm looking to buy one from trans mississippi depot, but have never seen an original, and would like more hard evidence before I go out and buy one.

[Secesh]

Re: English improted haversack

I do not have the image handy, but I have seen pics of an original, and I have seen Don Smith's / Trans-Miss Depot, and Don's is a dead ringer for the original. Thanks.

[oldsecesh]

Re: English improted haversack

Wade,

I have the one made by Don Smith of Trans Mississippi Depot, and its a beauty! I spoke with him prior to ordering it. He models his after a surviving example belonging to a South Carolina soldier. If I remember correctly, there are three existing examples, one being in a private collection. Your best bet is to call Don and inquire, as he has all the supporting information. Oddly, two of the originals have the leather strap closures facing upward, like the one Don makes, and one has the leather straps facing down. Boyd Miles makes the latter version.

[Eric Wisbith]

English Mess tin covers

Recently got an Issacs and Campbell pack and mess tin. What did the cover and or attachments to strap it to the pack look like? Does anyone make them?

[Pvt Peck]

Re: English Mess tin covers

Nick ************ has them listed on his site last I looked.

Edward Parrott
"humbug"

[lawson]

Re: English Mess tin covers

Go to Robert Serio of "Missouri Boot & Shoe". He'll get ya fixed up for darn cheap.

[DBURT]

Re: English Mess tin covers

Eric
This is a pic of an original at GNMP, British mess tin covers of the 1850/60's were supposed to be made from black painted canvas with black leather straps ( as from 1838)
Most though were made of oilskin, made with the application of japan to canvas or linen.

Dave Burt, ACWS, England.

[Johnny Lloyd]

Re: English Imported Gear

All-

Would anyone know reference material on the difference/evolution of the British Enfield bayonet frog and scabbard (with emphasis to those possibly imported to the Confederacy and used abroad) from about 1840s to the 1900s? Anyone have detailed pictures of originals used in the American Civil War?

Thanks- Johnny

[Roger Hansen]

Re: English Imported Gear

Re: I & C Knapsack

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I have in my collection a I&C knapsack hook which was dug at Pickett's Mill, so we can say that some were definitely issued and used by the AOT in the Atlanta Campaign. Would like to find more information on C.S. usage of the knapsack and other English accourterments.

Bob Steele
Recurit


I have seen I&C dug knapsack hooks from Morton, Mississippi along with lots of script I buttons with Manchester backmarks. Camp was occupied by Johnston's army as it retired from Jackson in the summer of '63 after Vicksburg fell. At this location these items were attributed to east coast units (from South Carolina) that were sent west to reinforce Johnston...units that had ready access to blockade goods.

Roger Hansen

[jacobite8749]

Re: English Imported Gear

Several months ago I purchased a box of mess tin straps, some stamped AR and some HGR and I presume some are SA War and some WWI. Again some are for cavalry mess tins and some the old style (similar to CW) infantry mess tins.

Below is a view of The Grange Tannery in about 1870 or so.

http://s31.photobucket.com/albums/c359/johnfhopper/tannery-00297-350.jpg

Below is a view of the bits the Germans left, at least until the 1980's. This can be seen up in the top right corner of the 1870's photo.

http://s31.photobucket.com/albums/c359/johnfhopper/412696552_ce2aaa656c.jpg