Image of US solider with all English accouterments

[ajroscoe]

Re: Image of US solider with all English accouterments

Hi everyone,
I'm new here, so sorry if these are small points. The second picture that Kevin Dally put up is consistent with the uniform of the Rifle Brigade (known as the 95th Rifles during the Napoleonic Wars) or the King's Royal Rifle Corps (known as the 60th Royal American Rifles during the Napoleonic Wars), but of which wore three rows of buttons on their coats in the Hussar style. The soldier in the photo in question has only one row of buttons, and therefore cannot be a member of either of those rifle organizations. The uniform is still unusual, possibly Commonwealth, but I thought I'd point out that his bayonet is on his right hip (since the photo is inverted). Does anyone know if the British regs called for the bayonet on the right hip? I know he could just have it there for the picture, but if that's how the Brits did it, that might help identify the picture.
Very Respectfully,
Andrew Roscoe

[Tim Prince]

Re: Image of US solider with all English accouterments

Okay guys, here is some more fuel for the fire (and from my perspective 6th Mass evidence). From Don Troiani's "Regiments & Uniforms of the Civil War", page 5, in reference to the uniforms of the 6th Mass in 1861:

"The uniformed companies have black pants with red & orange stripes down the sides and dark blue infantry coats." - Washington Evening Star (period newspaper account referring to the 6th Mass rather eventful march through Baltimore). (Emphasis is mine)

Troiani continues: "Clad in state purchased overcoats and milita shakos, the 6th Mass had gone to war as citizen soldiers." (Emphasis is mine)

While I don't think our subject is wearing black trousers, the stripes that I think are a pair of stripes could well be the orange outline stripes on either side of the red stripe (as shown in Troiani's picture on page 6 of the same book). I'm still on the fence as to who the guy is. If the hunting horn is the style with the ropes, that still does not rule out a US soldier, as that style of hunting horn insignia was in use with the regular army until at least 1851, and as we all know the state militia uniforms did not exactly rush to keep up (or necessarily even want to) with regular army regulations.

The jury is still out. Someone out there has to be an expert on Mass uniforms.......

Thanks for all of your help and comments.

[Guy Gane III]

Re: Image of US solider with all English accouterments

Upon another examination... I, too, see the two lighter colored stripes on the outside of a darker material. :D

[ejn]

Re: Image of US solider with all English accouterments

I don't think this is a 6th Mass soldier. Take a look at the drawings at http://memory.loc.gov/service/pnp/cp...0/3g01736v.jpg
http://lcweb2.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/...nd(cph+3a04036))

http://www.webbgarrison.com/Cvimages/00114.jpg

The uniforms are not similar enough.

Ed Norris

[Tim Prince]

Re: Image of US solider with all English accouterments

Thanks for the links, the pictures are interesting.

It is interesting to note that in the two newspaper drawing depictions that the uniforms don't even really match each other. Note that in one they are wearing forage caps or kepis and in the other shakos, with a few other caps and hats thrown in. The only this truly consistent is that they are wearing overcoats in both of the pictures that I could access from the links. While period sketches can provide a level of information, I have found that details are not always correct. There is also the possibility that the artists involved did not even see the troops with their own eyes, and drew interpretations after the fact. Bear in mind that Paul Revere's famous Boston Massacre engraving was not of something that he saw with his own eyes (and in fact was based upon the drawings of another person who I don't think was there either). In any event, I always take any period drawing (other than maps from topographical engineers) with a pretty big grain of salt......

Thanks again for sharing.

[Goat]

Re: Image of US solider with all English accouterments

A clue has surfaced. Look at the several belt buckles on this page, then at our boys'.

http://www.civilwaroutpost.com/16.html?m7:cat=%2FAccoutrements:nonested

Rob Willis

[MassVOL]

Re: Image of US solider with all English accouterments

Gentlemen,
Yes the Sixth was armed with Enfields, but they were not issued to them until they returned from their 90 days of service. They left Massachusetts in their militia uniforms armed with Springfield rifles. These rifles were then taken from them upon return from service and reissued to then forming three year regiments. Many soldiers of the Old 6th joined the 26th Mass which were issued Springfield rifles (most likely 55’s) from the returning 5th and 8th Militia as well.

"Our entire stock of Springfield rifled muskets was exhausted in arming the 31(sic 3rd?), 4th, 5th, 6th, and 8th militia regiments which were sent into the field in April, except so many as suffered to arm the first volunteer regiment, which was based on a militia organization. The 5th, 6th, and 8th , when they returned from their three months service, brought back their arms, which were immediately sent to be repaired and cleaned. Only enough of them have returned yet from the hands of the armorers to supply the 26th volunteer regiment."
Letter The Worcester Spy, October 30, 1861 , (Volume 90 # 43 to Hon Geo. Boutwell from GOV Andrews.

If this is a 6th Mass soldier this photo would have to have been taken in very late '61 or later to account for the Enfield. Massachusetts rapidly phased out the Militia uniform to replace them with Federal Uniforms in order to provide soldiers to the Federal Government and state defense. The available window for this being a 6th Mass soldier is fairly small particularly in a Militia uniform, and while not 100% certain I believe they had Mass militia grey jacket when they left the state.

The 44th regiment was organized from existing militia units, most notably the New England Guards, and would have been clothed in standard federal uniforms after muster. Due to the need for the Enfield to go to regiments leaving for the seat of war I think its unlikely that a militia soldier from either of these regiments would have an Enfield and still be wearing any thing other than a standard federal uniform. Looking at the New England Guard Uniform may shed some more light on this.

[BCIDick]

Re: Image of US solider with all English accouterments

Not neccessarily the 6th or 44th. Other Massachusetts units were issued British leathers early in the war. I think (not 100% sure) the 25th also was issued Brit leather. The shako was very early war and was typical headgear for pre war Mass. militia. There is a very good article in CW Historian on a Sgt. Kingman who is had a shako very like that one.

Robt. Firth

[marlin teat]

Re: Image of US solider with all English accouterments

Just to stir the puddin' a little...I believe Co. A (Rome Light Guards), 8th Georgia wore blue frocks and carried Windsors and wore english leathers and wore shakos at 1st Manassas.

[Craig L Barry]

Re: Image of US solider with all English accouterments

Let's apply the British Standard Duck Test here. I.E. If a waterfowl looks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it's probably a duck.

A good number of us believe this looks like a Brit soldier, and it certainly does to me, so I checked with fellow "Wearing the Gray" editor and professional researcher William O. Adams, who knows about such things...it is a Brit London Rifle Corps Volunteer.