House Bill:Marking Requirements for Reproduction Civil War Items

[OldKingCrow]

Re: House Bill:Marking Requirements for Reproduction Civil War Items

Says me to thee...


"You can have my unmarked Pakistani repop Nashville Plow Works CS Saber when you pry it from my dead hands......"

Chris Rideout

[toptimlrd]

Re: House Bill:Marking Requirements for Reproduction Civil War Items

We were discussing this the other day on the Common Ground. There has to be some amount of caveat emptr when buying originals. If I am going to buy an original item, I am going to do my homework, check the provenance, and ikely get it lookd at by an expert in the item in question; I'm sure not buying it off e-bay. I liken this to another passion of mine...muscle cars. There are a lot of Chevelle Malibus running around wih 454 engines and SS badging that could easily pass for an original (and often do). Will that be the next step, emblazoning such a car with "clone" down the side?

[Campjacksonboy]

Re: House Bill:Marking Requirements for Reproduction Civil War Items

Sounds like another example of something that will come up in 50 years when we talk about how our freedoms were slowly legislated and litigated away. If we are even allowed to have such a conversation.

So, will there be gear police showing up at our events to enforce the law?
Maybe we get big stamps on our cartridge boxes and hats marking them cleary "Reproduction."
Maybe their efforts would be better suited making a law that requires these lawmakers to get their own stamp. I suggest one that says, "STUPID." I would like to make the motion that it be placed on their forehead.

Frank Aufmuth

[JDolan]

Re: House Bill:Marking Requirements for Reproduction Civil War Items

Frank,

Completely agree with you. I was incensed enough by this affront to the hobby that I actually did something I've never done. Yep...I sent a letter out ot my representative telling him just how stupid and useless this thing is, and that if they really want to crack down on it, actually crack down on the sellers of that "original" crap, not those that make it, or those of us that are using it for other purposes, be it entertainment, education, or just because we like wearing the stuff.

Might I even go so far as to suggest we figure who is on this Energy and COmmerce Committee and send -them- letters all expressing our disappointment that this is considered a top priority to them compared to other issues, as well as all of the above that we've gone over?

I know that, at the least, I'm probably going to do as much, to at least say that, should this pass, we at least did something to try and talk some sense into them instead of letting htem just tread all over the hobby for the simple sake of seeing that some idiots can't pawn off a repro as an original.

[Secesh]

Re: House Bill:Marking Requirements for Reproduction Civil War Items

A "STUPID" stamp works for me!

[Dreamer42]

Re: House Bill:Marking Requirements for Reproduction Civil War Items

Hey, then we could sell T-shirts that have the pointing finger..."I'm with Stupid" so all their congressional cronies can have them, too.

I'm ready to vote for a congressman who runs on NOT doing anything.

- Jay Reid
Dreamer42

[Guy Gane III]

Re: House Bill:Marking Requirements for Reproduction Civil War Items

Reading about how the Govt does this, makes me want to do more Reb impressions. ;) I feel that this is, yet, another attempt to turn us into nice little nazis...um I mean.... Americans.

However, if someone is dumb enough to not know the difference between OG and Fake.... then you deserve to be burned. There are lots of people who have no business buying original stuff.

I feel like Indiana Jones when I come across stuff and think... "THIS BELONGS IN A MUSEUM!!!" :angry_smi

[DougCooper]

Re: House Bill:Marking Requirements for Reproduction Civil War Items

Given Mr. Moran's location, it sounds like someone close to him got burned. While he is at it maybe he could craft legislation curtailing our importation of fake goods from China, or maybe force ebay to actually enforce its rules about fakes, instead of ignoring people when they report them.
It's a stupid law. The forgers are already breaking the law, why would the passage of another law discourage them. Unless it is the death penalty, or maybe getting a hand chopped off, it won't deter them.

Moran is a big CW preservation supporter and history buff if I remember, and a real friend. He probably did this as a favor to someone who thought it of vital national interest. No way will it be passed - not to worry. The fact that it mentions only Civil War items is hysterical.

[Dreamer42]

Re: House Bill:Marking Requirements for Reproduction Civil War Items

Guy Gane III, reading your's made me think about other aspects of similar hobbies, not just CW. I have been collecting WWII and WWI items since 1983. The CW "world" is not the only repop field affected by fakers. Some WWII repop stuff looks "okay" from 10 feet away, but upon further inspection one can easily detect the flaws - mostly in the material used and stitching and thread - OMG! I AM a stitch Nazi after all!!!
So, where will it stop? WWII repro gear? What about items on display like the clothing and accoutrements at the Louis and Clark Museum outside St. Louis? Insane!
It all happens a little at a time.

- Jay Reid
Dreamer42
9th Texas
Franklin 04, BGR 07

[Ken Knopp]

Important legislation.......

Moderators, I could be out of line here cause I do not know where this "should" be placed (your call). However, as it could have a considerable impact on authentic reenactors, sutlers (makers of high end goods such as we frequent), collectors, etc. I thought it appropriate to open the floor for information and discussion in this area of our forum. Thank you!

Ken R Knopp

I found this on a relic dealers site tonight....PLEASE READ:


HR4125

Please take the time to email and call your congressman.

Ask them to support HR4125. This is the most important

legislation ever offered to combat fraud and forgery in the

Civil War antique world. It would require all reproductions

to be marked as such. You can find the contact info for yours at:

http://www.house.gov/house/MemberWWW.shtml

Please don’t put it off; we may not get another chance!

For more info on the bill see the CWDCA at:

http://www.cwdca.org/cgi-bin/Advocacy.asp

.................................................. .


No issue is more critical to the collection and preservation of Civil War artifacts and memorabilia than the proliferation of fakes or reproduced items that are sold as originals.


For those legitimately involved in this business and hobby, this is particularly alarming. This trend is made even worse by the fact that collecting of items such as these help to preserve an important part of our nation’s history. As time goes on and these relics become even scarcer and as a result more valuable, the growing threat of fraud endangers those legitimate dealers and collectors intent on keeping the legacy of the American Civil War alive for future generations.


While the serious collection of artifacts used to be limited to a relatively small number of known dealers, the proliferation of on-line auctions that harbor frauds has made the situation worse and more difficult to control. By a combination of experience and proven research techniques, those of us who have know the field can usually spot a fake. However, even we can be fooled. A more serious problem is the novice collector who buys an item on line thinking it is authentic only to find out it is a reproduction. This turns-off that potential collector and hurts both the expansion of the hobby and expansion of the marketplace for legitimate material, and threatens to confuse and disrupt the critically important fields of research and preservation. Only by thwarting those who traffic in fake historical items can we help protect this nation’s tangible heritage.


There is a solution to this issue. The Hobby Protection Act (Public Law 93-167, 87 Stat. 868.15 U.S.C. 2101 et seq) currently deals with only political items and numismatics (coins). It requires that all reproduction or imitation items must be clearly labeled as such. Expanding this current statute to include Civil War items would call attention to the issue. It would provide dealers as well as collectors some protection from those intent on making a quick illicit profit to the detriment of honest collectors and dealers.


CWDCA is promoting legislation to make this change.

[1stMaine]

Re: Important legislation.......

Ken,

First off, I am NOT making light of this issue, but I find this a bit over the top. What ever happened to doing research before buying something? I understand the desire of collecters to keep the value of their collections intact, but it seems to me that the onus ought to be on the buyer to become informed prior to spending his money.

What kinds of penalties should be enforced, and what, pray tell, do we do with all the reproductions currently out there? Would it now become illegal to "defarb" our weapons? Will we be required to purchase stamps or "repro offsets" to take care of the items we already own?

The better idea is to track down the folks selling the "fake originals" and treat them to some old fashioned "woodshed instruction" to show them the error of their ways.

I am sorry, but I cannot support such legislation.

Respects,

[Material Culture]

Re: Important legislation.......

This was already discussed in the sinks

http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14522

Sam Hayle
Anti marking mess

[2ndNHDOC]

Re: House Bill:Marking Requirements for Reproduction Civil War Items

One fear and question I have is where will this particular lot stop? I could easily see some PC crowd taking this one progressive step further to prevent Confederate impressions. Give an inch folks and people will take a mile.

[Slouch]

Re: House Bill:Marking Requirements for Reproduction Civil War Items

I really dont see the harm in this bill. Why would we care if "repro" is stamped in the sleeve lining of a jacket, or stamped on the inside of a cartridge box under the tins? So long as the repro stamp isnt blazed orange or readily visible, I think its a responsible thing to do.

[JimKindred]

Re: House Bill:Marking Requirements for Reproduction Civil War Items

Would you like to add .25 to each button on those uniforms to pay for the new die work to stamp that marking on the back of each button?

I have been collecting for over thirty years and in all that time I have yet to see someone ripped off because they spent too much time studying originals to educate themselves.