Reproductions: Bayonet Scabbards

[August77]

Re: Reproductions: Bayonet Scabbards

John,
It's tough to tell from pics, but I would say they have a welt. Whoever made them should be able to tell you how they stitched them. They look very high quality.

Will,
Craig is right about the leather wearing away to expose the stitches. Scabbard C is in pretty rough condition.

Neill,
Amazing!!!! Thanks for those pictures. I would love to see that scabbard in person. Unfortunately, it will probably be awhile before I get to travel that far south again. It looks like the scabbard is on a pretty interesting 'relic pyramid'... is there any relevancy between the scabbard and the rest of the relics there? It's interesting/strange that there is a carbine snap swivel right above it. It is also looks like they have it sitting in a weird position on that board, as if the frogg is sticking out the back toward the board bending it downward. Or maybe my eyes are just going crossed from staring at this forum too much lately.

Thanks,
Bill Lomas

[Iron Scout]

Re: Reproductions: Bayonet Scabbards

Bill,

That neat scabbard is in a four sided case, each side with it's own backing angled at about 70 degrees. Basically, the board is a hodge-podge with rifles, an Austrian bayonet and scabbard, etc. I do hope to get into the case sometime in the future for a better study. They also have a number of other CS leathergoods like a CS copy of an Enfield frog, Dower marked friction primer pouch, Augusta Arsenal marked ammunition crate/box, etc. Very neat place for sure.

Neill Rose
PLHA

[LibertyHallVols]

Looking at Reproduction Bayonet Scabbards

(I have merged two threads together. On rereading, one thread on this made more sense than two... Sorry if it is confusing to read. Thanks!)

Here two more reproduction bayonet scabbards from two different makers.

The first two are from the initial post.

The next two are attached in the thumbnails, below.

Enjoy!

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: Looking at Reproduction Bayonet Scabbards

The above were Federal style scabbards. Here are two different Enfield reproduction scabbards.

[D F Smith Historic]

Re: Looking at Reproduction Bayonet Scabbards

Hi John,

I don't mean to be rude, but what is the point of this thread? There was no stated purpose why these are posted.

Is this just for comparison sake? Is there a control sample of an original to compare these against? Or are they being compared to each other?

I would be happy to post pictres of an original Enfiled bayonet scabbard and an original US 2 rivet scabbard for comparisons

All the best


Don S

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: Looking at Reproduction Bayonet Scabbards

Don,

No, you're not being rude. My apologies!

I had stated in the earlier thread (I think) about orginal scabbards that I would follow up that thread with one to examine reproduction scabbards. Time passed, stuff happened... I finally took some photos to use as examples ... more time passed... then last night I had a few minutes to get the posted. So, I threw the thread up on the board and didn't take the time to say what the point of the whole thing was.

It bugged me, but I haven't had the time to do anything about it til now. So, you are quite correct... I should have put more info behind the post, rathrer than just "pics in a vacuum".

So, here's the point...
Kinda like the repro buttonhole thread, I had intended that this could be a chance for folks to look at some repro items and comment on what they see and compare to some original examples (original examples posted on the other thread).

I have kept "name brands" out so the label won't cloud the view of the discussion.

That's all. Again, my apologies for the vague posts.

PS - If you have pics of originals to post for comparison, that would be great! However, I would recommend posting pics of originals on the other thread (the one on original scabbards, linked in the initial post of this thread). Thanks!!!

[D F Smith Historic]

Re: Reproductions: Bayonet Scabbards

Hi John,

Thanks for the reply. I appreciate it. Although it looks as thhough I should apologize to you. I didn't see the theard on the original scabbards. I apologize for not looking a little further than the tip of my nose.

I sincerely agree, the discussion of what makes a good scabbard is a very important thread. The posting of photos of originals and reproductions is very helpful for folks to learn the differences and fine points.

Especially between different government contractors and arsenal products, as there are slight variations between them, finial types, rivet and stiching place emtn , stitches per inch, etc. As can be seen int the various pictures posted by Bill Lomas (Thank you Bill for posting the pics!)

I will take pictures of the Enfiled scabbard and the 2 rivet scabbard I have later today & post them .

Maybe the pictures of this thread should be put together into a refrence hand book for folks. Both a hard copy for sale, and a version for on the AC. Something simmilar to the American Bayonets hand book with illustrations and photos

The proceeds could go to CWPT, I would be happy to put my education in pen and ink editorial illustration to work for this if there is serious intrest in a porject like this

All the best
Don S

[tsgalloway]

Re: Reproductions: Bayonet Scabbards

I own a 2-rivet scabbard in excellent condition that I'll post pics of after I complete my move.

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: Reproductions: Bayonet Scabbards

No worries, Don! I struggled whether the discussion of original and repro scabbards should be in one thread or separate. Ideally, I think they should be separated... However, in looking at my initial post, I put up photos of repros as a "nudge" to solicite photos of originals. So, I think starting a second thread just added confusion. (If any of my more technically literate fellow mods would like to do a "split-n-prune" to clear it up, please be my guest!)

I think there is great potential for in-depth examination of original items and their construction, scabbards or otherwise! That is part of the motivation for these recent threads! I am also interested in helping folks develop a critical eye as they view reproduction items - not comparing repro's to repro's, but to originals. Much info has already been shared on this thread, and i think that's great! I would love to see many more threads like this!

Anyway...
The more pics of originals the better, as well as knowledgable descriptions of construction techniques, such as offered by Bill Lomas! (Thanks, Bill!!!)

Also, I'd be interested in folks' observations on the 6 repros I've pictured (or, put up pics of your own... just no makers' names, please, unless you made it).

Thanks!

[D F Smith Historic]

Re: Reproductions: Bayonet Scabbards

HI All

Here are pics of the Original Enfield and Original 2 Rivet Scabbards I own.

The 2 Rivet is a little worse for wear but complete.
The rivets are a little larger than what is sometimes encounterd, more than likely were set with a ball-pean hammer originaly (I know this due to the tool marks on the rivet & from experience in machine shops working metal).

It may have started out as an earlier all sewn type and then was retro fitted to meet regulations or was a contract variation.

The Enfield is more straight forward.

All the best

Don S

[Johnny Lloyd]

Re: Reproductions: Bayonet Scabbards

Question:

I was once told by a friend that original bayonet scabbards "normally" are still rigid after 140+ years. Is this true? Has anyone done any in-depth research into the subject?

Thanks- Johnny Lloyd

[D F Smith Historic]

Re: Reproductions: Bayonet Scabbards

Hi Johnny

It would depend uppon the condition of the original. Many are still rigid, but also keep in mind as leather gets older it sometimes gets harder as it dries out.

The 2 rivet scabbard I posted pictures of is fairly flexable, but not flacid. But is also isn't in the very best shape either

Hope this helps

Don S

[tsgalloway]

Re: Reproductions: Bayonet Scabbards

My 2-rivot is very "bendy" as well. It is in excellent shape. This is due to the environment the scabbard has been kept in for the past 140 years. I purchased mine from Tim Prince and I've seen a lot of scabbards on his site. He'd be a good reference in this case.