2nd FL flag lost at Gettysburg

[83pvi]

Does anyone have any information on the flag of the 2nd Florida lost at Gettysburg. I am doing a unit research project and any help is welcomed.












John Sivak
83 PVI/2 FL

[Ross L. Lamoreaux]

Re: 2nd FL flag lost at Gettysburg

I've found the staff at the state museum in Tallahassee to be quite accomodating on past research into the 6th and 7th Florida's flags, and also a PM to James "Archie" Marshall, curator of the Hillsborough County Veterans Museum in Tampa might not hurt. His AC name is FloridaWar. A quick check of my personal notes and data didn't turn anything up, but those two sources may be able to help. Best of luck to you.

[Dignann]

Re: 2nd FL flag lost at Gettysburg

Also try Richard Rollins' "The Damned Red Flags of the Rebellion": The Confederate Battle Flag at Gettysburg (Rank and File Publishers, 1997).

It contains good info on the battleflag at Gettysburg and those that were captured there.

Eric

[Seamus]

Re: 2nd FL flag lost at Gettysburg

From an article by Jim Studnicki for Gettysburg National Military Park-

About 20 minutes after Pickett advanced, the order came for Wilcox’s command to go in. The Floridians went over the wall and once again moved eastward at quick step. From the start, the brigade was subjected to long range artillery fire from both Little Round Top and Cemetery Ridge. The fire turned to canister and musketry as the Confederates crossed the Emmitsburg Road and approached the main Union battle line. A dense pall of smoke clung to the ridge, and the brigade drifted away from its intended direction. Instead of following Pickett’s men, the supporting column marched to its right, just slightly south of the place the Floridians had fought the previous day.

In the confusion along the base of the ridge the 16th Vermont Regiment, having just flanked one of Pickett’s brigades and sent it reeling with great loss, turned about-face and crashed headlong into the left flank of the 2nd Florida. This was simply too much for the regiment to stand. The 2nd Florida’s color bearer was wounded and gave his banner to another soldier to carry, but the new bearer advanced only a few more yards before he surrendered. The brigade was forced to retreat once again, and most of the 2nd Florida ended up as prisoners. The regiment's battle flag, a beautiful silk banner with a unique sunburst design sewn upon it, was turned in to Federal army headquarters for record of its capture. It was supposedly exhibited for a time in Chicago and then sent back to Philadelphia. Yet the flag vanished from all records after 1863, and is still missing today.

I would also check the OR's. There may be more details in the 16th Vermont reports (Stannard's Brigade). I have read that this color was lost in a fire, but cannot find my notes. Bruce Graetz at the Museum of Florida History should have more detailed info, as well.

James Permane

[83pvi]

Re: 2nd FL flag lost at Gettysburg

James,

I get a lot of "the reg. battleflag silk flag with a sunburst sewn on", but what I want to know is if the flag is a ANV style battleflag or a flag that they took into battle. In April, 1862 a pattern of flag was recommended to the CS Congress by the joint Committee on FLag and Seal. However it was never adopted. Manly's NC battery flag is supposedly close to the 2nd FL flag. The thing is Manly's flag was almost finished before this idea was shot down, and the 2nd FL didn't get there flag until the Battle of Fredricksburg. I have also heard that the combinded 1st and 3rd FL flag looks similar to both the 2nd FL and Manly's NC Battery.


John Sivak

[Seamus]

Re: 2nd FL flag lost at Gettysburg

John,

I got this from the message board on civilwarflorida.com:

"The flag the 2nd Florida lost at Gettysburg is something of a mystery. Daisy Parker's article "Battle Flags of Florida Troops in Confederate Service", Apalachee, No 3 (1948-1950) describes the lost flag as "a silk one 'presented by the ladies'. It was the Confederate battle flag with one addition - an intersection of the cross in the center of the flag surrounded by a golden sun burst."
The second description is on page 178 of Rollins "The Damned Red Flags of the Rebellion" where the flag is described as "a beautiful silk flag bearing a rising sun with the inscription 'Williamsburgh' and 'Seven Pines'".
In postings on this message board the 2nd Florida flag has also been described as being made of "blue silk". This would seem to preclude the flag from being a battle flag as Parker has mentioned, but it has been suggested that this flag may have been a two-sided flag, blue silk on one side and the St. Andrew's cross on the other.
Now consider the following. On page 82 of Glenn Dedmondt's "The Flags of Civil War North Carolina" is an illustration of the flag of Manly's NC Battery. This flag has a red field with a plain white St Andrew's cross. In the intersection of the arms of the cross is a blue shield with a yellow 8 pointed "sun". The accompanying text describes this flag as the pattern recommended to the Confederate Congress in April 1862 by the Joint Committee on Flag and Seal. In the end this flag was never adopted, but it would seem that the makers of the Manly's Battery flag had already completed a flag of this type. Dedmondt dates the presentation of this flag to the battery at around late April 1862.
The "Charleston Mercury" carried an article with a picture of the proposed new National flag on 21 April 1862. It is possible the makers of the 2nd Florida flag saw this article and they used it as the pattern for a new flag being made for the 2nd Florida. The battle honours "Williamsburgh" and "Seven Pines" suggest that the flag was presented either just before (the honours were added to the new flag in the field) or after (the honours were added by the flag makers) these engagements. In both cases the flag would date shortly after April 1862.
Admittedly, apart from the use of a "sun" at the intersection of a St Andrew's cross there is not much to connect this pattern of flag to the flag of the 2nd Florida. However, a Florida link does perhaps exist. The flag of the combined 1st and 3rd Florida has several similarities to the Manly's Battery flag. It has a red field and a white St Andrew's cross. It also has a shield at the intersection of the cross's arms, although in this case it is a red shield that has a white star in it instead of a sun. The battle honours on the flag are all similar in style, leading to the conclusion that they all date from after Jonesboro, the last of these honours. Thus the flag could conceivably date from a much earlier time.
Therefore, given that at least one Florida flag seems to exhibit some of the characteristics of the proposed National flag, is it possible that the flag of the 2nd Florida also followed this pattern? While this is something that can only be proven if and when more details on the 2nd Florida flag are discovered it hopefully does provide some food for thought. "
Ryan Toews

Check this link for more discussion:

http://www.civilwarflorida.com/site/comments/read_comment.php?commentREF=43

[ritoews]

Re: 2nd FL flag lost at Gettysburg

Hello Gentlemen,

I suppose, that after only reading postings on these message boards for the past year, when something I have previously written is posted here it is time to become a member.

Unfortunately, I cannot offer any additional information on the Gettysburg 2nd Florida flag. If I should come across something of interest, however, I will forward the information.

Ryan Toews

[83pvi]

Re: 2nd FL flag lost at Gettysburg

James,

I have been on that page many a time. I also read the Memoirs of C. Seton Fleming for info, but nothing. Col. Lang has nothing, haven't seen anything by Vermonters or Floridians. Maybe somewhere there is something.

John Sivak