Cooke and Brother rifle repop

[Prodical Reb]

While surfing the net I found this Cooke and Brother repop being produced in Dahlonega, Georgia. While his storefront looks pretty FARBY, the rifle appears to be the perverbial diamond in a goat's a**. I'm not very knowledgable on these rifles so I'll just regurgitate the info from the website. They start with a Euroarms P58 the convert to the Cook & brother rifle from Athens, GA. It's seems pretty pricey at $1000; $600 if you supply the rifle. Are there any other makers of a Cook and Brother repops?

More experts out there than I, what do you think? finally a good use for that old EuroArms 2 bander gathering dust in the gun safe?

The only thing I noticed that didn't look right was it looks like the tang of the triggerguard has been brased together to create a longer tang for the sling swivel. But this could be entirely correct manner in which the original was made but I doubt it. Da** I hate not knowing it all!:cry_smile

http://www.bearclawstradingpost.com/cook_brother.html

I'd post some pics but the website uses a scrolling picture viewer and can't copy and save those.

I know its use is limited to late war only being made in 63-64. How many total were originally produced and who and where were they issued to? Bummers is coming up!

[WoodenNutmeg]

Re: Cooke and Brother rifle repop

A very interesting find to say the least...thanks for sharing.

I'm sure someone of merit will come to the rescue on this one.

Da** I hate not knowing it all!

Well, I'm convinced most of us here have Asperger's Disorder anyway, so, you're not alone.

[LWhite64]

Re: Cooke and Brother rifle repop

Looks pretty good, probably the best repop I have seen. One thing though, yeah the Athens model would be restricted to late war, but Cook and Bro were operating in New Orleans early on as well, so they probably could put together a 61 model. Also, the Cooks had a lot of variations as well. We have several here at Chickamauga, you can come over and check them out.

Lee

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Cooke and Brother rifle repop

Hallo!

From a Moderator's POV, Asperger's Syndrome can seem quite common.... ;) :)

Seriously,

Cook & Brother started out in New Orleans in 1861, but moved to Athens, GA in 1862 thanks to the Yankees.
Production numbers are fuzzy, as they made rifles and "artillery pattern" carbines, but some 7,000 total pieces were made (about 1,000 in New Orleans).

Basically they are the 'Enfield" rifle and artillery carbine/musketoon clones with some minor differences. In brief and to over-generalize...

1861 made pieces were similar to the British pieces save for minor and major details like hammers, ramrods, brass bands, wide front sight, and the extended trigger guard plate with brass sling swivel. However, already by 1862 "expedients" were appearing such as simplified rear sights ("Kentucky block style"), simplified front sight, and elimination of the long rail type sword bayonet lug mount by late 1862-1864.
"Expedients" and exceptions are known, such as an oval "patchbox" on a rifle, cherry stock, and there is also a surviving "cavalry pattern" carbine with captured ramrod and sling bar. And the hammers, while 'Enfield" profile, vary between the "medium" and "heavy" types lacking line engraving and the "chevrons."

In brief and to over-generalize, IMHO, any repro based upon Italian repros simply carry over the "problems" or "short comings" of the Italian reproductions. For this offering, I personally would prefer to see a "'Cook & Brother, N.O. 1861" or 1862 lock stamping to be a full sighted, sabre bayonet version, with Enfield style ramrod.
Aesthetically, a little more "brass" maybe in the brazing to extend the Enfield trigger plate to make the Cook & Brother extended version. And, the size of the flag and letters on the lock plate stamping were smaller on the originals and typically struck without so much metal displacement. And the only barrel markings I recall were a "Proved" stamp" (And "F.W.C." stock cartouche).

All told, I have only seen two C & Bro rifles and one carbine, in the flesh...

Value received for dollar spent I leave to the maker and particularly the buyer.
But, IMHO, it is nice to see "something new" NOT coming out of India/Pakistan. ;-)

Curt
As a 2nd Sergeant, in the Way Back Daze, I used to carry a Cook & Brother Rifle I made Mess.

[Craig L Barry]

Re: Cooke and Brother rifle repop

The Confederate produced arms are the most challenging to study and analyze, but a few patterns emerge. First, according to conventional wisdom the US model 1855 based production from the CS Armory were considered "the best firearms made in the Confederacy", nothing against Francis and Ferdinand Cook (Cook & Bro), but they were no James H. Burton and they were not working with the kind of machinery the Richmond got from Harpers Ferry. Second, the CS produced arms were mostly based on three weapons, the US 1855 (rifle and rifle musket), the US 1841 and the Enfield. This one of course, being based on the Enfield rifle pattern. The CS produced rifles were considered "poor copies of the Enfield" (Katcher, Philip "American Civil War Armies" p. 38). I have not seen enough evidence to make a determination one way or another, but certainly there was a crudeness to most CS produced longarms except for the output of the main CS govt Armories (F'ville and Richmond).

I am pleased to see somebody stepping up to produce something more accurate in terms of a Confederate produced Enfield pattern. There are a few points to consider here...it has been noted that only a smattering of these were produced, though estimates do range up to 20,000 (Ibid Katcher) and this particular version would lack any early war provenance, limiting its potential utility. The lock plate does not appear (from the pictures) to fit particularly well in the lock mortise. The barrel should be blued, and I can't tell what finish they put on it, but it does not appear to be blued. The stock has not been re-contoured to resemble the Enfield commercial pattern, or the pictures I have seen of the few surviving Cook & Bro Enfields.

Like Curt says, when one begins with an Italian repro it carries forward the same shortcomings. Interestingly, Euroarms makes a Cook & Bro Enfield rifle that is not too different from this one, item CB 330 (www.euroarms.net). Wouldn't someone be better off de-farbing one of those for a lot less than the cost here, which seems a princely sum for the work being done? Not that I am suggesting the Euroarms other than as a less costly alternative.

I would put that diamond back in the goat's a**. It appears overpriced.

[Prodical Reb]

Re: Cooke and Brother rifle repop

We have several here at Chickamauga, you can come over and check them out.
Lee

Lee,
Its been years since I've been to Chickamauga NMP. I love the weapons collection you have on display. I 'd like 1 of everything you have there. Ever find the coffee grinder Sharps?

Back in the mid 80's, my first reenacting unit, 14th Indiana, Co E, did LHs there on the park grounds. We were based out of S. Indiana. Our ring leader was Tom Nord. I belive the park Historian at the time was Dale something or other. I can't remember his last name but I'm pretty certain that his first name was Dale. also did some volunteer work as a CS Art'y crew there too. I'll be back again in the same capacity! Kinda tough to get there now given my current location! Take care and Merry Christmas!

[Craig L Barry]

Re: Cooke and Brother rifle repop

I was there in August and the "coffee mill" Sharps was on display at CHCH as part of the Fuller Collection.

[Joe Walker]

Re: Cooke and Brother rifle repop

I didn't see where this outfit put the word "Proved" on the barrell. There also should be number underneath the nose cap. Nice repro regardless. I took a Euroarms "Cook Rifle" and sent it to Zimmerman about eight years ago. He did a nice job. Hardest part is adding to the trigger guard tang.

Joe Walker

[marlin teat]

Re: Cooke and Brother rifle repop

Lee,
I belive the park Historian at the time was Dale something or other. I can't remember his last name but I'm pretty certain that his first name was Dale. also did some volunteer work as a CS Art'y crew there too. I'll be back again in the same capacity! Kinda tough to get there now given my current location! Take care and Merry Christmas!

That would be Dale Chambers and he is still around. I was probably with him, as was Lee W. and the rest of the Chick-Chatt old timers.

I wish Dale would get online sometime as he would be a great contributor in discussions such as this. He really knows his weapons.

[Roy Queen]

Re: Cooke and Brother rifle repop

I've just finished reading John Latty's new book out on the 11th GA Cavalry Regiment, formerly 30th GA Cavalry Battalion, and in it, there is mentioned that this regiment was armed with Austrian rifles and Cook and Brother Carbines, of which the troopers disliked because of shoddy workmanship.

The title of the book is: "A Fine Body of Athletic Soldiers A History of the 11th Georgia Cavalry Regiment". This unit spent some time in Athens, so it does make sense that some of the Cook and Bro. rifles would have been issued to them.

Roy Queen

[Pritchett Ball]

Re: Cooke and Brother rifle repop

Glad to see someone bring up the Cooke & Brother rifle...

I have a book on Confederate firearms: Confederate Longarms and Pistols, A Pictorial Study by Richard Taylor Hill & William Edward Anthony. It has about 16 pages on the varrious models/versions of that firearm. As Joe Walker brought up, "Proved" is seen on the picture of some of these.

I've handled Joe's Zimmerman re-worked (Fix sighted) Cooke & Brother, loaded with a .578" 405gr Hodgdon (SP?) target minnie Bullet, loaded with 38.5 gr of FFFG Elephant Black powder...I put 5 shots in a ragged 1-3/8" hole at 50 yards!:D

I'd love to see info on WHO were issued the Cooke & Brother Rifles/carbines.

Kevin Dally

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Cooke and Brother rifle repop

Hallo!

"I've handled Joe's Zimmerman re-worked (Fix sighted) Cooke & Brother, loaded with a .578" 405gr Hodgdon (SP?) target minnie Bullet, loaded with 38.5 gr of FFFG Elephant Black powder...I put 5 shots in a ragged 1-3/8" hole at 50 yards."

Nice shooting! Really...
While that should drop one's Hit -Time Average, I am having trouble seeing how that contributes to the authenticity or historical correctness of the reproduction?

(Half-teasing, thanks to the emoticon used...)

Curt

[Pritchett Ball]

Re: Cooke and Brother rifle repop

Oh gosh, Curt...

I forgot to add that the "group" was 1 foot BELOW the 4" black dot I was shooting at.:o

But I thought the rifle had potential...if we could get the point of impact, to the point of AIM!

I still would be interested in info on known sources as to whom these rifles were issued to.

Kevin Dally

[civilwarcaptain]

Re: Cooke and Brother rifle repop

Here is a picture of my C&B that Modified myself:

http://www.freewebs.com/5thnycavalry/photographs.htm

[VaTrooper]

Re: Cooke and Brother rifle repop

What are the odds that someone from the 5th NY Cav found one of these and decided to carry it? Zero? Less?