Which type of paper be used to make your cartridges

[Dan Munson]

Re: Which type of paper be used to make your cartridges

Kevin (and all),
So the conclusion was that 3M masking paper was the best alternative, notwithstanding that it is a wood pulp-based (not rag fiber-based) paper?
Well, I was going to give the cotton-rag resume paper a shot (also much stiffer than newsprint), but the 3M stuff has to be cheaper, and if it won't get me laughed out of EFUBUs, that's the way we'll go.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Which type of paper be used to make your cartridges

Hallo!

IMHO, 3M Masking paper has become, an "accepted standard" for cartridge paper and bundle wrapper paper these Daze.

Perhaps the only issue lies where one uses the more expensive "calligraphy" linen- based papers at events where there is an ammunition issuance.
And instead of your own, you receive back cartridges made from the paper towels liberated from restaurants, or made from Yellow Pages pages, yesterday's newspaper, or Christmas wrapping paper turned inside out.

But as the Old Saying goes... don't go to "those events..." ;) :)

Curt

[Kevin O'Beirne]

Re: Which type of paper be used to make your cartridges

Heinrich adequately sums up the No. 1 "beef" about cartridge issues, at least by guys in the group of which I'm a member. :)

Regarding the question above about 3M masking paper, yes, it was concluded by "Sparky" Henion after much research and experimentation that 3M masking paper is the best, readily-vaailable (and inexpensive) modern alternative for Civil War-era rifle-musket and musket cartridges. That said, it's not "100% accurate"--rather, it's the best expedient. Among other things, I've often wondered (and so, for that matter, does "Sparky") if the brownish hue of 3M paper is really (sort of) matching the 140-year-old hue of original cartriges of the day, rather than the color they may have been at the time, because "old paper" that is not acid-free tends to change color over time.

[Craig L Barry]

Re: Which type of paper be used to make your cartridges

Patrick Reardon's pamphlet on "Making Cartridges" comes to pretty much the same conclusion on 3M paper being the closest modern equivalent. He examined originals at the Museum of the Confederacy in much the same way Henion did. I have used that 3M masking paper for years because of the performance for the task intended, tearablitiy and color. If that paper were much cheaper it would be free, it is something like $1.80 for a nine inch roll, enough for thousands of rounds.

[acwillen]

Re: Which type of paper be used to make your cartridges

Has anybody ever solved the "problem" of different color papers for different types of rounds (blue for Williams cleaners, etc.)? Back in my overly anal days, I was actually experimenting with a blue ink pad and a foam roller to color 3M masking paper blue, but I was never happy with the results. None of the references mentioned so far in this thread have said anything about this, either (that I've noticed, anyway) Ideas?

[Kevin O'Beirne]

Re: Which type of paper be used to make your cartridges

Has anybody ever solved the "problem" of different color papers for different types of rounds (blue for Williams cleaners, etc.)? Back in my overly anal days, I was actually experimenting with a blue ink pad and a foam roller to color 3M masking paper blue, but I was never happy with the results. None of the references mentioned so far in this thread have said anything about this, either (that I've noticed, anyway) Ideas?

Yes, part of Jeff Henion's research in his chapter on cartridges in "The Columbia Rifles Research Compendium" discusses how to reproduce Williams cleaner rounds using an approach similar to that described in the quote above. I've seen his efforts and they look pretty good compared to originals.

[Pritchett Ball]

Re: Which type of paper be used to make your cartridges

I have wondered about the type/color of paper that was used in cartridges in the WBTS. I have not been able to see many original cartridges myself, I have to rely on relic sites for what they have. Problem is you are at the mercy of what their lighting & flash does to the actual color. Then you wonder if time has affected the original color of the paper, as well as the possibility of staining from the powder within, plus handling from dirty hands.

A few relic sites have original cartridges shown…

http://www.horsesoldier.com/catalog/c0034.html

http://www.sharpsburg-arsenal.com/Cartridges/cartridges.html

http://www.civilwaroutpost.com/m7_view_item.html?m7:item=BU84

Then you run into original Enfield style cartridges, British & Confederate…

http://www.cwpforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=266

The EoG Union/Confederate books show cartridges, showing mostly a tan/brownish colored paper, but then your still wondering what their picture taking/lighting methods were.

I have used recycled newsprint I get in a big notebook from Michaels Art and Crafts stores her in FT. Worth, TX. It has about the right color, but it tears easily, and you have to be careful when you tie the cartridge, and fold the tail, making sure you don’t pinch the tail area too tight when ready to fold.

Kevin Dally
Probably adding more to the confusion mess

[DaveGink]

Re: Which type of paper be used to make your cartridges

Jeff Henion's six-month study of this very topic in 2001 included measuring with a micronmeter the thickness of original cartridge papers versus fairly available modern alternatives. He also evaluated things like color and appearance of the paper (fiber content, etc.), although these matters were, of course, more subjective than the paper-thickness measurements. His conclusion was that the best modern expedient for more-accurate reprodutions of Civil War cartridges for rifle-muskets and muskets is masking paper such as the type manufactured by 3M Corp, available at any hardware store in the painting section.

3M's masking paper is a good deal thicker and stiffer than the much-more pliable newsprint-type paper used by many reenactors.

Jeff's results are summarized in his essay on small-arms ammunition of the Civil War included in The Columbia Rifles Research Compendium.

Would this paper work as good or better than newsprint in making Sharps cartridges? Where the cartridge is actually placed into the breech and fired? Would it blow apart adequately? I'm thinking it sounds too heavy.

[33rd VA Co. H]

Re: Which type of paper be used to make your cartridges

Would this paper work as good or better than newsprint in making Sharps cartridges? Where the cartridge is actually placed into the breech and fired? Would it blow apart adequately? I'm thinking it sounds too heavy.

Sounds too heavy?? Did you read this entire thread????? :sarcastic The consensus among pretty much EVERYONE is that 3M masking paper is the best available paper for making cartridges. It's not butcher's paper...of course it's gonna blow apart adequately when fired.... doesn't matter if it's flying out the end of a Sharps or a rifled musket. I've used it for years and believe me.... it blows apart in to little bitty pieces when fired out of ANY muzzle. Why don't you take 3 bucks.... go to Lowes and check it out for yourself.

[FlaYankee]

Re: Which type of paper be used to make your cartridges

I usually enter these discussions extremely late but here goes; I can pretty much echo many of the comments here about using 3M masking paper (tan) and occasionally I find it in a lighter tan color which is almost perfect. I use it for the wrapping as well and have a 4 different ink stamps to make St. Louis labels.
NOW, for the Williams cleaner rounds I have found a lightwieght craft paper available from a company called Pacon. They have this in a Dark blue color and many other colors. Its easy to tear and as far as I can tell has the same consistancy as the 3M masking paper. You can buy it in a 100' roll for about $29.00 (that price has shipping including within). If you have any questions about how to get this paper, just shoot me an email and I'll find the contact information.
Some folks will say whoa! thats expensive, and I say yeah! But so was all that high quality gear you bought and all that time on research Remember the devil is in the details
There are quite a reliable well documented sources out there on how to correctly make authentic cartridges, and personally I think there are no excuses for not doing this.
Kindest Regards;

[DaveGink]

Re: Which type of paper be used to make your cartridges

Sounds too heavy?? Did you read this entire thread????? :sarcastic The consensus among pretty much EVERYONE is that 3M masking paper is the best available paper for making cartridges. It's not butcher's paper...of course it's gonna blow apart adequately when fired.... doesn't matter if it's flying out the end of a Sharps or a rifled musket. I've used it for years and believe me.... it blows apart in to little bitty pieces when fired out of ANY muzzle. Why don't you take 3 bucks.... go to Lowes and check it out for yourself.

Yes, I did read the entire thread. However it was talking about the 3M paper being used to make cartridges for infantry use, and I wanted to define it towards Sharps use. The reply I responded to said it was heavier than newsprint and this concerned me. I will always ask questions if safety is an issue. Sorry if this somehow bothered you. And if I can ask a simple question here, why should I dig out my car from under the snow, and go to a store to buy some, and test it? Did it really take that much energy to answer a simple question (which you could have easily ignored)? But thanks for the response anyway. It still helped - despite your being an ... about it.

Kids, lets play nice. Jim Kindred

[rick35ovi]

Re: Which type of paper be used to make your cartridges

Yes, I did read the entire thread. However it was talking about the 3M paper being used to make cartridges for infantry use, and I wanted to define it towards Sharps use. The reply I responded to said it was heavier than newsprint and this concerned me. I will always ask questions if safety is an issue. Sorry if this somehow bothered you. And if I can ask a simple question here, why should I dig out my car from under the snow, and go to a store to buy some, and test it? Did it really take that much energy to answer a simple question (which you could have easily ignored)? But thanks for the response anyway. It still helped - despite your being an ... about it.

Hey Dave, Not sure if you have heard about this for your Sharps but We have used curl wrapping papers from the beauty parlor, I know it sounds funny but they are light enough and they burn up completely. For people who never fired a sharps rifle the paper doesnt tend to burn completly or it will debris in the barrel.

[DaveGink]

Re: Which type of paper be used to make your cartridges

Hey Dave, Not sure if you have heard about this for your Sharps but We have used curl wrapping papers from the beauty parlor, I know it sounds funny but they are light enough and they burn up completely. For people who never fired a sharps rifle the paper doesnt tend to burn completly or it will debris in the barrel.

Hi Rick,

I have heard about hair curling papers being used, and that they burn up nicely -- but I believe it might have been Jerry Todd (I'm not positive though) who said the tails didn't get cut off very well when the breech block was closed, and that they were pretty flimsy to deal with. I was thinking about giving them a try as pistol cartridges though, so I may give them a shot with the sharps once the weather gets a little better and I can do some experimenting. Especially if you've had some luck with them as you say.

Cheers,
Dave

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: Which type of paper be used to make your cartridges

IMHO, 3M Masking paper has become, an "accepted standard" for cartridge paper and bundle wrapper paper these Daze.

Perhaps the only issue lies where one uses the more expensive "calligraphy" linen- based papers at events where there is an ammunition issuance.

Curt,
I'd love to see the linen-based paper you recommend. I've worked with both "craft" paper (very tough to tear) and the 3M masking paper. The latter is much easier to work with. However, both are quite brown when compared to pics of originals, such as this one from G-burg, linked in an earlier post.

[33rd VA Co. H]

Re: Which type of paper be used to make your cartridges

Yes, I did read the entire thread. However it was talking about the 3M paper being used to make cartridges for infantry use, and I wanted to define it towards Sharps use. The reply I responded to said it was heavier than newsprint and this concerned me. I will always ask questions if safety is an issue. Sorry if this somehow bothered you. And if I can ask a simple question here, why should I dig out my car from under the snow, and go to a store to buy some, and test it? Did it really take that much energy to answer a simple question (which you could have easily ignored)? But thanks for the response anyway. It still helped - despite your being an ... about it.

Infantry....cavalry..... muzzle.... breech....it's paper wrapped around gunpowder being shot out of the end of a firearm. Your post did not bother me.... I just found it funny that you think there is such a difference in the paper that should be used for infantry vs cavalry rounds. It's a well known fact that during the WBTS there was a problem with the paper completely burning when fired from breechloaders and other firearms.... hence the use of white fine, linen, collodian and other ideas and patented cartridges for a more complete burn in carbines and other weapons. As far as Rebel Cav goes, they should always expect to see flying embers as they pretty much exclusively used paper. Did every bit of rammed or loaded cartridge burn away completely for the real soldiers? NO! So what must one do to be as authentic as possible? Expect to see smoldering bits of paper fly from your muzzle. Like I said before..... get some 3m paper and check it out for yourself..... other than being a little off in color....it's about as good as your going to find for a repro round.

Oh and if safety is such an issue for you... I'm surprised you don't wear a helmet when atop your horse. :D
Sorry.... now that was me being a bit of an ... :wink_smil

Kids, if you can't play nice you will be given a time out to think about it. Jim Kindred