Company/Regimental Level Mess Equipment

[CRHJr]

Hello all!
This is my first post so please let me know if I'm in the wrong sub-forum, or if I am out-of-reference. I'd appreciate any examples on getting it right if folks have the time.

I'm about to be assigned duty as my Unit's Mess Sargeant and I have a few questions regarding the Company or Regimental issue of Mess Furniture (that is to say, cooking equipment).

I've done quite a bit of searching, both in Regulations ('48, '57, '61) and online and I cannot seem to find a place that lays out exactly what was issued to a Federal Regiment for purposes of cooking raw rations. Any advice?

I have read the Mess Furniture article here on AC, but it focuses on individual mess gear and habits and not at the organizational level. I will, however, be forwarding that article to my fellow-soldiers.

Given that I've been asked to start pricing equipment, any help would be welcome.

Thanks for your time.

[YoungCampaigner]

Re: Company/Regimental Level Mess Equipment

Hello Mr. Hicks! If you are looking for early-war Regimental Camp Furniture, you might be getting more than you bargained for. Here is a passage from Rebel Cornbread And Yankee Coffee: Authentic Civil War Cooking and Camaraderie by Garry Fisher. Note: The passage at the end is from a Confederate memoir, but it should prove to be of some help nonetheless.

When they managed to get some food, the next big problem confronting men in both armies was how to cook it. In the early days, before either side had learned the practicalities of war, the green volounteer regiments would arrive in their training camps with heavy cook chests, one per mess. Loaded with every imaginable cooking implement, the chests were so heavy that they had to be drawn in wagons. Carlton McCarthy, a member of the famous Richmond howitzers, looked back with ammusement at these elaborate chests in his detailed memoir Detailed Minutiae of Soldier Life in the Army of Northern Virginia:

"In addition to each man's private luggage, each mess, generally from five to ten men, drawn together by similar tastes and associations, had its outfit, concisting of a large camp chest containing skillet, frying pan, coffee boiler, bucket for lard, coffee box, salt box, meal box, flour box, knives, forks, spoons, plates, cups, etc."

Most of these chests were probably discarded early on because of their impracticality.
Does anyone know is one of these mess chests is still in existance? Where is it?

[BobbyHughes]

Re: Company/Regimental Level Mess Equipment

There is a mess chest in EOG (CS) and i can tell you what page its on and who its ID'd to, as my books are packed at the moment for our upcoming move. The actual chest, if I recall correctly is at the Atlanta History Center.

[Jimmayo]

Re: Company/Regimental Level Mess Equipment

Since you are the Mess Sgt. I assume you want static camp equipment. There are pictures on the LibOf Congress site, http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/cwphtml/cwphome.html, showing cook kettles of the AoP in use. Down load the archival version of the file and zoom in with your photo editor and you may see what else is being used. It can be educational looking through all the pictures but there is a search feature to narrow it down.

One or two of these kettles with a period tripod would be a great start. Iron stew pots and dutch ovens were also used. I would suggest staying away from the iron grills that sit over the camp fire . I have never seen one of these in a picture or dug from any camp.

[AZReenactor]

Re: Company/Regimental Level Mess Equipment

Carl,
Since you are portraying a US Regular your task is a little simpler than the volunteer US and CS units that had to figure out how to feed men from scratch. Rather than individualized mess chests and equipment of the volunteers, you will likely be starting with nesting kettles, sheet iron pans, and other items that the regular army had been using in garrison and on campaign. You can draw on information about what the US Army practices before, during, and even after the war were in looking many of the personal accounts and sources of US regulars. A couple items to help you get started.

The Army Ration (1864)

Subsistence and Army Cooks History Page

A Taste For War: The Culinary history of the Blue & the Gray

The Best Feeding The Best A Brief History of Army Food Service

For our unit's far West impression we draw on Carleton's General orders #3 which specified what was to be carried by men and companies on the march from Yuma, AZ to Texas. Carleton was in the US Dragoons in the territory before the war and, by most accounts, a very regimented officer and splendid organizer. The portion of his order that covers mess equipment is as follows.

...Each soldier, whether of cavalry or infantry, will have one canteen, one haversack, and one tin cup. In his haversack he will carry one fork, spoon, and plate.... Each company, whether of cavalry or infantry, will have only enough mess-pans and camp kettles (in nests) for absolute requirements; also a few short-handled frying pans, some large tin plates for the baking of bread, three large tin pans in which to mix bread, one or two strong coffee-mills, a 6-gallon keg for vinegar, a few pounds of black-grained pepper, four axes, four camp hatchets, six spades, six shovels... Officers will not take mess-chests, or trunks, or mattresses on the march. It is suggested that each mess of officers of not less than three be provided with two champagne baskets covered with painted canvas for their mess furniture. These can be packed upon a mule.

We are still gathering items for our company mess but obtained our nesting Kettles from Wendy Osman.

Hope that helps get you started into this very interesting area of research.

[ephraim_zook]

Re: Company/Regimental Level Mess Equipment

Carl,

In addition to what Jim said, the following paragraph is from Sanderson, Capt James M, Camp Fires and Camp Cooking; or Culinary hints for the soldier: including "Recipt for Making Bread" in the portable field oven" furnished by the Subsistence Department. by Capt James M Sanderson, Commissary of Subsistence of Volunteers. , Washington, Government Printing Office, 1862.

"The utensils and means furnished by government to the soldier for preparing his food are of the most primitive character. The former consist of camp kettles, made of iron, with a handle, and varying in size from four to seven gallons (they should be made so as to have one slide into the other, in nests of four,) and mess pans, also of iron, about 12 inches in diameter, and sloping to the bottom."

I am sure that this is not the be-all and end-all of mess equipments, but it is a real good start. Mess kettles are very common in the reenacting world. Seldom have I seen mess pans. Note that mess kettles are cylindrical sheet iron kettles that nest togther -- they are not the great cauldrons that one frequently sees at reenactments, not to say that cauldrons are necessarily wrong.

I've posted some subsitence resources on the web here. Feel free to download any or all. http://rejmyzie.googlepages.com/thes...encedepartment

Good luck!
Ron Myzie
Occasionally, "Reenactment Nutrition Specialist"

[Kevin O'Beirne]

Re: Company/Regimental Level Mess Equipment

By the way, what exactly is a Civil War-era "mess sergeant"? I am not familiar with that term or role in an infantry battalion.

[Pvt Peck]

Re: Company/Regimental Level Mess Equipment

I have been a mess of a Sgt. but never a Mess Sgt. !

On a serious note, my old unit purchased a set of nesting kettles from Wendy Osman many years ago and they are a first rate bit of equipment. There are some neat photos of Sibley tent tripods just being used over camp fires to hang mess kettles from. I have been a company cook before and it is quite a job, even sticking to the most basic issue rations, I wish you luck.

Ted Parrott
"detesable comestable mess"

[CRHJr]

Re: Company/Regimental Level Mess Equipment

Thanks for all the VERY helpful advice. I'll be looking up those references presently. To answer several questions presented, I'll take them in order.

Jimayo, yes, since my Company does most of it's work in the ACW era I'm looking at doing a static display. Since since we also have a pretty extensive history in the Washington Territory, the 'regulation Regular' is important from an educational point of view.

Kevin, I've seen insignia that denote 'Company Mess Sargeant' (cheverons pointed down, with two 'straight rockers'). In other references it's been called 'Commissary Sargeant'. Given the somewhat inexact usage between 'Quartermaster', 'Commissary', and 'Mess' in documents of the period, I chose to use the usage that described what I was going to be doing. If there's a better one, please let me know. :) Mind you, my plan is to simply wear Sgt. stripes.

Further question: What with nesting kettles, I'm wondering if there is documentary evidence of dutch ovens? I ask because there was a period in my Company's history where there was a supply breakdown and we ended up purchasing quite a bit of clothing and equipment from Hudson's Bay Company. I'm doing further research on this, but guidance is always helpful.

Thanks again to everyone for getting back to me. The information is both useful and interesting.

Cheers!

[Material Culture]

Re: Company/Regimental Level Mess Equipment

I tried to find the old article on Mess Furniture by Robert Braun but it is no longer at

http://www.amtma.com/33articles/messfurn.html

Paul Calaway had the article at his tripod website but that is gone also.

Sam Hayle
Mess Furniture Mess

[Kevin O'Beirne]

Re: Company/Regimental Level Mess Equipment

Check the section on rations in "Hardtack and Coffee" by John Billings.

Still looking to hear what a "Mess Sergeant" was. A typical infantry regiment in the era may have had a Commissary Sgt, Quartermaster Sgt, and Sgt Major, but no such thing as a "Mess Sgt". An infantry company had a cook (as I understand it, this was not usually a permanent position), and up to four "under-cooks" (often hired African-Americans), but none of these company-level "jobs" was usually held by a Sergeant.

[Johnny Lloyd]

Re: Company/Regimental Level Mess Equipment

Kevin-

From my own recent Army experience, for comparison to period military terms and positions:

I believe someone is confusing the modern term "Mess Sgt."... the modern nickname for the Senior NCO in-charge of a "mess hall" (now officially termed a DFAC, or "dining facility") with the official period term of "Commissary Sergeant".

This NCO's modern duties are still the same as his forebears in the Civil War- order, plan, cook and distribute rations for all soldiers... Not much has changed here.


Just in case you are still wondering... Johnny Lloyd

[AZReenactor]

Re: Company/Regimental Level Mess Equipment

Kevin, Good suggestion regarding Hardtack & Coffee. Hardtack & Coffee is available online if you are one of those who doesn't own a copy, use libraries, or only does e-search. ;-)

I have come across some period usage of the term "mess sergeant" in 1864 and 1865 but it looks like this is a volunteer shorthand for Commissary Sergeant and refers to a clerk position responsible for purchasing and oversight, not the cooking.

As with many issues in the regular army this one is tied very closely to purse strings since additional sergeants mean additional expense in the form of pay.The appointment and pay of Company Commissary Sergeants appear to have only been authorized in late forming mounted units (which would exclude the 4th US Infantry). In the 4th US Infantry such duties were likely overseen by the 1st Sergeant.

Customs of Service for Non-commissioned Officers and Soldiers(1864)

111. The cooks are under the direction of the first sergeant or commissary-sergeant, who superintends the issue of provisions and directs the cooking for each day. Company cooks for the whole company are generally detailed in turn, and for periods of a week or ten days.
...
COMMISSARY SERGEANT.
495. THERE are two kinds of commissary sergeants,— regimental and company. The battalion commissary sergeants allowed to the new regiments of infantry have similar duties to those of regimental commissary sergeant.
490. The old regiments of artillery and infantry are not allowed commissary sergeants in their legal organization; and the duty is performed either by the quartermaster sergeant, or a sergeant detailed on extra duty for the purpose. All other regiments are allowed a commissary sergeant each.
....
THE COMPANY COMMISSARY SERGEANT.
510. THIS office is of recent date, and is authorized only in the mounted regiments and the new artillery regiment. The same pay and allowances are authorized as for company quartermaster sergeants. He is, however, only a part of the company organization, and under the direction of the company commander.
511. His duty is to make out the provision return, attend to drawing the rations for the company, and superintend their cooking and distribution to the men. He takes care of the company savings, and keeps the account with the commissary.
512. He is required to know the drill, and attends the exercises the same as other non-commissioned officers, except where they would interfere with the performance of his legitimate duties. He should also be familiar with all that has been prescribed for the duty-sergeants of the company.
513. The utmost impartiality should be exercised by the sergeant in the distribution of the provisions, to prevent discontent among the men. They should all be served alike, as far as it is possible. Close attention is necessary in the care of the stores; and none of the men should be permitted to help themselves. No one except the cooks should have access to the provisions, and these only when the sergeant is present.
514. The provisions for one meal only should be sued to them at one time to be cooked; and when they are ready for issue, the sergeant should be present, and see that they are equitably distributed and that the proper allowance is saved for those who are necessarily absent, that the prisoners are supplied, and also all others who are entitled to rations from the company.

If you are doing the actually cooking for a company you should either be a private or African American.

General Orders of the War Department Embracing the Years 1861, 1862, and 1863.

"SEC 9. And be it further enacted, That cooks shall be detailed, in turn, from the privates of each company of troops in the service of the United States, at the rate of one cook for each company numbering less than thirty men, and two cooks for each company numbering over thirty men, who shall serve ten days each.

SEC. 10. And be it further enacted, That the President of the United States be, and he is hereby, authorized to cause to be enlisted, for each cook, two under cooks of African descent, who shall receive for their full compensation ten dollars per month and one ration per day-three dollars of said monthly pay may be in clothing."

[AZReenactor]

Re: Company/Regimental Level Mess Equipment

As regards equipment, one item that did catch my eye is the scales mentioned in Kautz.

07. The commissary department furnishes scales, wights, and measures, which he should always keep at hand; for without them he will be unable to give satisfaction to the troops without running the risk of seceding the authorized issues.)

Anyone know of any examples of original Commissary scales and, more to the point, a modern reproduction or even approximate facsimile that would fit the bill?

[John E. Tobey]

Re: Company/Regimental Level Mess Equipment

Hello All,

At regimental level, this stuff was called "Commissary Mess Furniture." It was in the care of the regimental quartermaster, and in at least one instance consisted of the following items:

one spring balance
three liquid measures
two dry measures
three faucets
two funnels
two molasses gates
four tin scoops
two cleavers
one hatchet
two meat saws
one meat hook
five butcher knives
one butcher's steel
two tap borers
one cooper's adze and handle.

The above list comes from the 64th NY, and dates from the middle of the war. I would consider it pretty typical. The scales that someone wondered about was, in this case, actually called a "spring balance." They are occasionally excavated from CW sites, and bear a very strong resemblance to what we would call a "fish scale" today. Steel body, brass front, 15-20 pound capacity. The old-style gravity-balance scales were, I think, less common than spring scales. (Everything in this post refers to the US Army, BTW: I've more examples of true balance scales coming from southern camps). A pretty typical example can be seen on page 151 of Phillips, Stanley, "Excavated Artifacts" (First volume).

At company level, the usual mess equipment consisted of mess pans and mess kettles, both of which are adequately described by Billings.

When it came to the actual division and distribution of rations to men in the companies, the process varied from unit to unit. In a few cases, the first sergeant handled it himself. This was probably rare, as he was usually busy with other things, but in some small companies was perhaps the only option. In most companies, it was another sergeant who did it, but I have documentation that it sometimes it was handled by corporals or even privates.

Why the variation? Consider what had to happen at company level. Unlike the regimental QM, there were no scales or measuring devices. Billings described a system in which small piles were made of rations, the piles being blind-distributed, etc etc., but this was complicated and time consuming. A more common method was that the the company portion was divided up by someone (with the skill) in the company and the rations simply given out to the men with no apologies made for unequal shares. The trick was to find someone who was able to efficiently divide the rations; interestingly, this often fell to a man with some experience in the grocer's trade -- this was the case in a couple of companies that I researched personally. In many cases, this man was one of the sergeants, in others he was a lower rank. The important thing was that the "divider" was able to make relatively equal portions with little or no equipment. How they did it is another interesting topic....

John Tobey