Company/Regimental Level Mess Equipment

[ephraim_zook]

Re: Company/Regimental Level Mess Equipment

As regards equipment, one item that did catch my eye is the scales mentioned in Kautz.


Anyone know of any examples of original Commissary scales and, more to the point, a modern reproduction or even approximate facsimile that would fit the bill?

Troy,

Look at this photo. If you can get the large TIFF version and take a close look you'll find all kinds of great things -- including two platform scales, a chest with knives and implements, a box of candles, a guy holding a scoop or measure, etc etc. One of the best photos of its kind that I've ever seen.

http://memory.loc.gov/service/pnp/cwpb/03600/03676v.jpg

Ron Myzie

[J.H.Berger]

Re: Company/Regimental Level Mess Equipment

I have to mention, that Billings is only giving approximate dimensions of the camp kettles and mess pan. I have made two kettles to his measurements and they are far off what you see in original photographs. Osman had correct ones and some others like Pat Cunningham too.

[Uncle Pig]

Re: Company/Regimental Level Mess Equipment

I have a set of the nesting kettles (village tinsmith) and they come in quite handy some of time. At first you will think they are too small for your needs but you will be surprised. At one event several years ago we cooked 5lbs of rice in the large pot and stew in the other two. We had over 70 people served. So cooking for 100 men in a company might not be unrealistic. They are a pain to transport and store.

[CRHJr]

Re: Company/Regimental Level Mess Equipment

Thanks all. I'm not looking at anything that big insofar as mouths to feed. My unit is all of a dozen or so, and we're mainstream. I don't think the Federal Brigade in my association is 300 souls if everybody showed!:)

I'm just starting my process in becoming more of a 'campaigner', starting with how and what I present to the public. I'm not real talented with the first person presentation but I think that doing work that I know how to do should help.

[Kevin O'Beirne]

Re: Company/Regimental Level Mess Equipment

I believe someone is confusing the modern term "Mess Sgt."... the modern nickname for the Senior NCO in-charge of a "mess hall" (now officially termed a DFAC, or "dining facility") with the official period term of "Commissary Sergeant".

This NCO's modern duties are still the same as his forebears in the Civil War- order, plan, cook and distribute rations for all soldiers... Not much has changed here.

John,

That's was I was figuring as well, but would like to hear it from the person who's writing it, because over the years I've been Internet-slapped silly for making my assumptions public. :)

That said, while I am not conversant with the duties of a modern mess sergeant, as you describe them they are not the same as the duties of a Civil War-era battalion commissary sergeant. One very important difference is that the Commissary Officer and Commissary Sergeant were responsible for procuring and issuing rations, not for their preparation. Preparation was done either by the company cooks (supposedly some companies had two at a time, but I suspect that one cook per company was most common) and his under-cooks, or by the men themselves (often when preparing to march). When a company cook was used, Kautz ("Customs of Service for Non-commissioned Officers and Soldiers") says that a man was to be assigned duty as a cook for ten days, after which someone else got the duty, so the post of "cook" was perhaps not a permanent one. I confess, however, that I don't have any documentation of how cooks were really selected and served in actual companies.

[Johnny Lloyd]

Re: Company/Regimental Level Mess Equipment

When a company cook was used, Kautz ("Customs of Service for Non-commissioned Officers and Soldiers") says that a man was to be assigned duty as a cook for ten days, after which someone else got the duty, so the post of "cook" was perhaps not a permanent one. I confess, however, that I don't have any documentation of how cooks were really selected and served in actual companies.

Kevin,

That must mean a lower-enlisted "detail" or soldiers that were detailed to aid in food preparation- aka "Kitchen Patrol" or KP in modern parlance- there was probably a period equivalent term.

When I was in the active Army, we would use KP as punishment to make sure the unruly soldier was productive and supervised by an NCO at all times when we were in training. In wartime in Iraq, policies probably differ from base to base since civilian contractors usually handle food preparation now, but when I was in Ramadi, Iraq, we detailed soldiers that needed to be watched (for whatever reason) to help-out at the FOB mess hall to help the civilian contractors/other military personnel that ran the facility.

Some soldiers looked upon KP in training (where our Battalion cooks made our meals without civilian contractor help) a blessing, because you got to mostly stay indoors where it was warm and you got to eat as soon as your duties in the kitchen were done while the food was hot and fresh.

For me, it doesn't take too much research to know that in most instances, soldiers personally in combat don't change but the circumstances sure do.

I'm sure the period-equivalent wouldn't change so much if we were to have a time machine and go-back to the 1860s. ;)

Good thread- Johnny

[AZReenactor]

Re: Company/Regimental Level Mess Equipment

I wanted to share this link which shows some of the close up details of the African American Army Cook at City Point, VA. some of the details that can be seen include the Army Mess Kettles, a skimmer, a fork, and sibley tripods being used to hold the kettles.

[Uncle Pig]

Re: Company/Regimental Level Mess Equipment

Does anyone know of some one reproducing tripods like the ones in the pictures?

[Andrew Keehan]

Re: Company/Regimental Level Mess Equipment

Under Section 1147 of the Revised Regulations of 1861, 2 camp-kettles and 5 mess pans are to be issued to every 15 foot and 13 mounted men. http://www.usregulars.com/
This section is reproduced in Gilham's Manual (Section 784) and I believe also in Casey's.

Camp-kettles and mess-pans are also the only mess furniture mentioned in Kautz' "The Company Clerk." (Form 5)

Although they were almost certainly not the only items issued, they are the only officially sanctioned public property to be issued to "messes" and companies.

[Charles Heath]

Re: Company/Regimental Level Mess Equipment

Don't forget the very common use of the company fund to purchase skillets and other cooking utensils. One need only roast coffee beans in a kettle a couple of times to understand just how important a few extra items can be. Of course, a good first person vignette could be that Council of Administration debate where a coffee grinder, skillet, serving utensils, and other items are in competition for the scarce funds. Keep reading, and you'll find the references.

Sometimes civilian kettles are found at campsites, or at least the remnants thereof. They typically have ears for the bail, whereas the issue kettles (designed to be stacked) do not. Speaking of 1862 relics in excellent collections, D.P. Newton has been known to make a functional Sibley tripod now and then. It's worth a shout, and even more worth an enjoyable visit to the museum at White Oak.

[Andrew Keehan]

Re: Company/Regimental Level Mess Equipment

This is an addendum to my previous post. In the Revised Regs QMD Form 51 (Return of Clothing, Camp, and Garrison Equipage), there is a line labled "iron pots." I would guess these are the heavy iron cauldron style pots, but can't say for sure. I could find no reference to how, or when, or to whom such pots would be issued.

Oh, and the table of CGE from the regs is in Gilham's, but not in Casey's. This is why I like Gilham's better.