Correct Die-Stamped Militia Plate Reproductions

[VMI Confederate 07]

Good afternoon friends,

I was wondering if anyone had any info on vendors correctly making die-stamped militia belt plates? Due to a new militia impression I am putting together I am now in need of a die-stamped milita plate bearing an eagle. Nothing more is known about the particular patern of plate used by the specific company other than it must bear an eagle on the plate. Any information would be helpful!

The pattern that we would like to use can be seen at the link below. The image comes courtesy of Harry Ridgeway at www.relicman.com. It is what he believes a post war reproduction made off of an original die. We are not limiting ourselves to this particular pattern if other correctly made belt-plates exist. Therefore, anything can help! THANKS!

http://www.relicman.com/images/P0607.jpg

The original can be viewed here on one of Mr. Ridgeway's referance pages along with the information.

http://www.relicman.com/ArchiveBukfaaMilitias.htm

Sincerely,

[BobbyHughes]

Re: Correct Die-Stamped Militia Plate Reproductions

Hanover brass has that exact plate, page 4, first plate on the page. It's probably cast rather than die stamped, but its there.

[D F Smith Historic]

Re: Correct Die-Stamped Militia Plate Reproductions

Good afternoon friends,

I was wondering if anyone had any info on vendors correctly making die-stamped militia belt plates? Due to a new militia impression I am putting together I am now in need of a die-stamped milita plate bearing an eagle. Nothing more is known about the particular patern of plate used by the specific company other than it must bear an eagle on the plate. Any information would be helpful!

The pattern that we would like to use can be seen at the link below. The image comes courtesy of Harry Ridgeway at www.relicman.com. It is what he believes a post war reproduction made off of an original die. We are not limiting ourselves to this particular pattern if other correctly made belt-plates exist. Therefore, anything can help! THANKS!

http://www.relicman.com/images/P0607.jpg

The original can be viewed here on one of Mr. Ridgeway's referance pages along with the information.

http://www.relicman.com/ArchiveBukfaaMilitias.htm

Sincerely,

Byron,

I can get you set up with one very simmilar ( eagle with shield on its chest) stamped off of the original dyes & guilded as per the original on a correct Web Belt .

I will try to get a pic up of the one I can do for you Feel free to PM me

All the best

Don S

[D F Smith Historic]

Re: Correct Die-Stamped Militia Plate Reproductions

HI All,

Here is a plate I did up for myself for a Militia Officer Sword Belt. The plate it self is stamped off of an original set of dyed and is gold gilt.

These belts appear both on enameled leather belts and on white webbing

All the best

Don S

[Iron Scout]

Re: Correct Die-Stamped Militia Plate Reproductions

Don,

Thought you might like to see this. This plate came out of the ground several weeks ago in Pendleton, SC. While many would say the larger/longer tongue is indicitive to a later, post war plate, several other pre-CW items were unearthed nearby. Needless to say, this is one of the best plates I've ever seen with the applied SC, etc. Neat stuff.

Regards,

Neill Rose
PLHA

[D F Smith Historic]

Re: Correct Die-Stamped Militia Plate Reproductions

Hi Neil,

Wow! what a nice example of a SC plate!

It is intersting about the back on it. I too have heard the statement that this particular back is post war. Although Silvia & O'Donnels book on plates shows that it largely depends on "which" plate has theis back as some have very, very solid pre War and earliy war provenance.

I have heard this type of wide tongue arangement "French Fastener" or " French Hook"

I have a war time Officers Plate with this same arrangement. Initially it was thought to be post war , but one was dug from a site with solid provenance re dating the plate.


I am amazed the the SC plate shoes thatt he "SC" portion is still keyed to the back of the plate. Is it wired into place?

All the best

Don

[jgr1974]

Re: Correct Die-Stamped Militia Plate Reproductions

Mr Smith if the plates go to production I would be intested in one!!!! Become a hobby of mine l;ately to collect correct plates!!! Mainly civilian right now,but love the militia plates too!!!

Ps Mr smith I am planning on doing some civilian sash buckles. Have any info or a direction I look for???

The Mad MIck!!!

[D F Smith Historic]

Re: Correct Die-Stamped Militia Plate Reproductions

I almost forgot,

Here are some examples of Militia plates and belts I have done for customers on a custom basis, based on originals

Pictured are:

Belt I made for a fellow portraying an early 9th NYZ Hawkin's Zouave

SC Milita Belt & plate , based off of photos Neil Rose posted and email & PM Converstions with him

Early US Militia Belt with "French Fastener" plate and keeper

Don S

[D F Smith Historic]

Re: Correct Die-Stamped Militia Plate Reproductions

Mr Smith if the plates go to production I would be intested in one!!!! Become a hobby of mine l;ately to collect correct plates!!! Mainly civilian right now,but love the militia plates too!!!

Ps Mr smith I am planning on doing some civilian sash buckles. Have any info or a direction I look for???

The Mad MIck!!!

Hi Jeremy,

I can make most any militia plate ( I have a back ground in metal working , among other things) I love to make these . Just because of the shear variety of them.

The SC Plate shown by Neil is a bit tricky to make . It consists of a cast or die cut 'SC' more than likely "sweated" to the plate face with solder. Some were "Keyed" to the plate face by soldering a loop to the device and cut a slot in the plate face . By wich, the loop was passed through and the device held in place by a small leather "key" that slipped into the loop.

The reason for the "key " as two fold. It developed was so that the plate could be dissasembled for cleaning, as well as a way a manufacturer could offer and make several differnt types of plates very easily by interchangeable devices that could be indexed to a single type of plate body.

There are several differnt types of these plates in collections that have been dug with out the front device, that either was lost, or was separated from the plate at some point. Leaving only a plate body with a slot or two in the front.

I can make this plate by very carefuly hand cutting the appropriate metal to the shape of the "SC" and sweating it or "keying" it to the plate. It would be a bit spendy just because of how labor intensive the hand cutting and finish fileing would be on the "SC" portion as there are no repops of that particular stamping around. (est $75-100 for the plate).

Other Militia Plates are eaiser to reproduce as the stampings are avilable still off of the original dies or high quality thin castings are available. Cost for most types of Militia plates with a device or fancy stamped types are around $35 and up.

Making copies of documented belts, plates and collecting is a hobby of mine as well. I had never thought ther was a larger interst in militia plates.

Regarding Sash Plates. I would suggest getting a copy of Silvia & O'Donnels book onAmerican Military Belt Plates. They cover Sash plates.

Other books that are good are Sydney Kirksis's book on Military Plates as well as Lon Keim's (sp) book on plates.

Feel free to give me a call or emil me regarding plates

Don S

[Wild Rover]

Re: Correct Die-Stamped Militia Plate Reproductions

Don,

Would love to chat regarding Pre War Maryland Militia sword Belt Plate.

Pards,

[VMI Confederate 07]

Re: Correct Die-Stamped Militia Plate Reproductions

Don,

As stated in my email, your expertise has once again amazed me. I'll let you know as soon as I hear from the other lads.

Sincerely,

[D F Smith Historic]

Re: Correct Die-Stamped Militia Plate Reproductions

Hi All,

Feel free to give me a shout. Either by email or by phone. I am happy to discuss these type plates and direct folks to any information

All the best

Don S

[SCTiger]

Re: Correct Die-Stamped Militia Plate Reproductions

Don :

Was anything produced in regard to the SC militia belt plate? We could sure use a run here, maybe 10 to 20. Also could you give some details on the webbing? It would seem from the photographs, that the webbing was thick enough to hold the cap pouches, and the bayonet scabbard without sagging. Most modern, reproduction militia webbing I have ran across has been too thin and would twist up easily.

[D F Smith Historic]

Re: Correct Die-Stamped Militia Plate Reproductions

Hi Greg,

The SC plate can be made, but the "script SC" would have to be separately cut or cast (the originals were stamped, but no die is available). The pieces would need to have the fixing wires or loops soldered on to the back. I have done this in the past for customers. Feel free to give me a shout I'd be happy to work out the details with you for a run of these.


As far as the webbing goes. The majority of original existing examples I have seen & handled as well as my own original belt are made of a strong medium weight web (really not even a true web, but is a narrow gage fabric).

This web will support a cap box with out rolling. It was originally meant to be worn with a separate bayonet belt and box belt made of the same web.

This being said there are several original images that show clearly that the web used did roll when used & that the majority of this type of militia belting was made of the medium weight web.

The thick stuff is mainly post war usage, as post war military & fraternal plates are encountered on these.

The sets of web that have provenance to the war or pre war tend to be the medium weight or even some thinner types as well

The web belting was originally meant as an alternative to the more expensive buff cross belts for the "Sunday" or Marching & Chowder Society" militia that wanted to look martial and sharp, but not lay out alot of money.

Later during the war several southern states used the webbing as an alternative for leather, the state of Virginia as late as 1862 issued rolls of web with plates, to troops in the valley to make up sets of accoutrement belting.

The webbing was also used in other way as well. Some examples were painted black to make them stiffer. This does work very well. And there is one other example of a CS web belt with provenance to R.L. Ward of Texas made of militia web with leather reinforcement at one end for the belt plate and a leather strip sewn on the other end for the adjustment holes.

Hope this helps

Don S

[D F Smith Historic]

Re: Correct Die-Stamped Militia Plate Reproductions

Hi All

Here is a pic of the soldier with web cross belts showign the rolloing of the web with a cap box on

Don S